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NASB | Luke 8:13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Luke 8:13 "Those on the rocky soil are the people who, when they hear, receive and welcome the word with joy; but these have no firmly grounded root. They believe for a while, and in time of trial and temptation they fall away [from Me and abandon their faith]. |
Bible Question:
How do you then interpret the verses I listed (and the many others) that talk about "our choice"? I've talked to other Calvinists and they all ignore the verses about our choice in the Bible and quote out a few verses that can be interpreted to fit their needs. The "Free Will" theory holds up throughout the Bible while the "Predestined" theory holds up only in a few parts of the Bible and each of these parts can also be interpreted using the "Free Will" theory. ---------------------------------- You mentioned John 6:44. I agree that no sinner can make the first move in the salvation process. Fortunately, God has already made the first move through Jesus. It's now up to us to accept this. Also, if you put John 6:44 in context and read the entire section, you'll see a whole different meaning. John 6:38-40 - tells us that Jesus is sent to do the Father's will which is that EVERYONE who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life. John 6:44 in simply saying that no one is going to Heaven unless God Allows it. God wants everyone to be saved (this is backed up by other verses I'll supply if needed). John 6:45 "...EVERYONE who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me." It doesn't say "only those I choose will come to me" John 6:47 "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." John 6:51 "...This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." He's saying that he will give his life for the world, not a elect group in the world. ------------------------------------- Eph 1:4-5,11. Again, put it in context. God predestined us as a whole not a group to have the opportunity to be saved. When it talks about us being predestined for foreknew, it's talking about God's plan - that through Jesus we can be saved. When it talks about the Elect, that's simply another way to talk about the people that have accepted Jesus. Today, we use the terms Christian, born-again, believers, etc... Back to Ephesians, at the end of chapter 1, Paul tells them that they were included in Christ when they heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation. In other words, when they heard about Jesus, they were included in God's plan. Paul next states that "Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,..." Notice the "Having believed" -- this implies that they had a choice to believe or not. ------------------------------------ A couple other question to ponder: If God chooses only some people to be saved and not others and we have no control over that then why did Adam and Eve eat the fruit? Why did God flood the world to remove all the evil people? Why did Jesus have to die for our sins? If God decides alone who will and will not go to Heaven, why did these things (and others) happen? But if God wants everyone to be saved, but through his great love allows us to make the choice, then these things are easily explained. |
Bible Answer: Predestination: I suppose depending on a mans 'school'of theology this is a stumbling block or a rock to throw at the 'other' camp. While predestination cannot be denied on biblical grounds "he has predestined us ...(eph) It would be better to have a more sure foundation for our understanding than an assertion of a fact and heralded up as some theological trophy to parade before our 'enemies' While what I say does not cover the whole subject it IS biblical and therefore a sure foundation for a mans thinking. So where do we start? As always to the beginning Genesis. For every seed bringeth forth fruit after its own kind. Those foolish people who object to gender in the scriptures forget it is the man who has the seed not the woman thus if every seed bringeth forth fruit after its own kind it is MAN......kind. Moreover they then get deeper into trouble by taking out FATHER.Forgetting that "unless a seed fall into the ground and die it abideth alone...." and that Jesus was the only begotten Son of the Father. Therefor it can be said without fear of contradiction that EVERY seed is PREDESTINED to the end that God has ordained for it. Wether it be the seed of the woman or the seed of the serpent. Or wether it be the seed of ADAM. Now w eknow by the scriptures that the first Adam was made a living soul and he lived not just by "every tree that was good to eat..."But also by the word thaT Proceded from the mouth of God aqs to what was GOOD to eat and what was EVIL to eat. and by that knowldge that was of God they lived. It was when they rejected that knowldge and did that which was right in thier own eyes that Adam corrupted himself and was made subject to sin and death. But seeign that we all were IN the first Adam (beign his seed) by one mans disobedience all were made also subject to sin and death. Thus all who are of the first Adams seed are PREDESTINED to return to the dust from wence they came. For we are born in sin and shapen in iniquity. But here is a wonder . Woman have no seed .But God willing to show that there would come a single "it" male "he" child born of a woman but not of Adams seed said the "seed of the woman..." Now we know from other scripture and that in genesis that God is a husbandman.For he planted a garden it says in genesis. Now are we not made in the image? Do we not know then as farmers or gardeners that what so ever a man soweth that shall he reap? is it beyond then the wit of man to think how much greater then does God know the end from the beginning? Moreover He also knows of what seed will bring forth what fruit. The seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent. Thus that "Word that proccedeth out of His mouth" shall not return unto HIm void but shall acomplish that where unto I sent it" Thus "if it does it bringeth froth much fruit" Is not the kingdom of God likened unto a man who went and sowed seed in his feild? or one that sowed the good seed in hsi feild and did nto while "men slept his enemy came and sowed another seed?" What comes from God goes to God. Thus there is the WORD of life and the word of death. Therefore man left to himse;lf is doomed and predestined to one end . Seeing that "every soul that sinneth it shall die" and the wages of sin is death" Therefor man of the first Adams seed is lost undone and without hope in this world predestined for a lost eternity. But the last Adam was made "a quickening Spirit" The WORD that was in the begining with God and was God made flesh put on the seed of abraham. and seeign that the seed is the Word of God. it wass sown in the feild of this world and in mens hearts. He too was predstined unto good works that he should walk in them.According to the scriptures. Therefore the calling is Gods for the dead do not live untill they hear his voice."He who has an ear let him hear" Thus when a man repents and recives the Word by the Spirit and is BORNagain he is translated from one predestined end to another. From corruptable seed to incorruptable seed. The call is to ALL to repent.For God is not willing that ANY should perish. Which message you believe then even as it was in the begining will determin what fruit you bear. and by thier fruits shall ye know them. Self leads to satan. and finaly it will be seen of soem that they are the seed of the serpent. while others of that seed of the woman. "But ask not who will go up for that is to bring christ down,nor say who will go down for that is to briong christ up.But what sayeth the scriptures?.............." Do not judge before the time. "I judge no one said jesus but My words will judge you at the last day." Of what seed then are we? "Sow therefore unto yourselves rightousness..." "For God is not mocked whatsoever a man soweth that shall he reap" |