Prior Book | Prior Chapter | Prior Verse | Next Verse | Next Chapter | Next Book | Viewing NASB and Amplified 2015 | |
NASB | Luke 8:13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Luke 8:13 "Those on the rocky soil are the people who, when they hear, receive and welcome the word with joy; but these have no firmly grounded root. They believe for a while, and in time of trial and temptation they fall away [from Me and abandon their faith]. |
Subject: One example of loosing salvation NT |
Bible Note: Howdy Matt! I’ll try and be brief, but judging from my prior posts, that won’t happen! You said:“You stated that all we have to go by is that these people escaped the world through the full knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” Actually I didn’t say “full” knowledge, I said simply knowledge. That may be splitting hairs, but I think it is an important point. “The fact that these people in 2Peter 2:20 had the knowledge of salvation, and escaped the pollutions of the world shows that they also must have obtained this through the remission of their sins.” In the context of 2 Peter, to say these false teachers had a true saving knowledge of Christ is a stretch, based on the context. Based on the context of this passage, the false teachers were part of this visible church and heard the gospel preached. They, for all intensive purposes, from the vantage point of that first century church, believed the gospel. They did escape the defilements of the world, they were now in a church where the gospel is preached and the world was not glorified. But, you and I know true faith will produce fruits, and in 2 Peter 1:5-8 Peter lays out fruits that we should be diligently striving for in order to make our calling and election sure. Peter is talking about assurance of salvation here. It is obvious to me that the false teachers never practiced the fruits Peter was talking about. If they did, I don’t see it in the passage. Sure, they escaped the defilements of the world, but the passage never says they had all these fruits and had a full assurance of faith. All the passage says is that they had knowledge of the Savior, they escaped the defilements of the world and they had knowledge of righteousness. Again, in this context, Peter ties true saving knowledge with the fruits and the obedient diligence to practice those fruits listed in 2 Peter 1:5-8. These false teachers didn’t exhibit these fruits. Therefore, to say these teachers had remission of sins and were truly regenerated is a serious stretch, again, based on the context of the passage. “You ask if God will take away what he has freely given? I say "NO" absolutely not.” I don’t think I asked that question specifically, my question is if God makes a promise, does He follow through? I think, based on your answer above, you would say that God does come through on His promises. Would you agree? As well, the question “Can Christ lose a Christian?” did not seem to be answered. Maybe you did and I didn’t catch your point, in that case, I apologize. As well, I asked about the nature of true saving faith, which I think points directly to what the issue is at hand. The false teachers did not have true saving faith because their “faith”, according to the context itself, produced in the end only heresy! As to your discussion about rewards, I am not sure that is the topic we are discussing. The context of 2 Peter is about true believers and false teachers. Maybe rewards could be a topic covered in another thread! “You also ask if true saving faith is even ours to claim? I would say that all faith is given by God so "NO". It is Gods grace that he has written his laws on the tables of every mans heart to know the difference between right and wrong even unto death.” Well, I would have to say that true faith in Christ is a gift from God. Anybody can have faith in things, military, state, self, i.e. idols, but true saving faith in Christ comes from God (Heb. 12:2; Eph 2:8-10). I would reference Romans 1-3 for a discussion about sinful humanity knowing the law, knowing what God commands, but suppressing it and blaspheming God by their depraved minds and wicked actions. I don’t want to read too much into what you said there, so I will not continue down that road. The point I am making in asking the question is that if true saving faith is from God, He will perfect that faith, since He is the Author of that faith. Did the false teachers in 2 Peter have this kind of faith, a faith that God has authored and perfected? Please note, I am talking about true saving faith, not some self-centered faith that pagans have, but real faith, faith that looks only to Christ and nothing else for salvation. “Our faith has nothing to do with Gods mercy.” Matt, how can you say that our faith has nothing to do with God’s mercy? Hebrews 12:2 states that He is the author and finisher of our faith. He authored it and finished it, therefore saving faith is something He makes and gives to us, so we would say it is a gift from God. How does this NOT have anything to do with mercy? God showed mercy by giving us true saving faith, because left to ourselves, we would be groveling in the dark cursing at God about everything! The whole bible is about God’s mercy, and faith has everything to do with it! Check out Romans 3 and 4, Titus 3. I guess I am at a loss to find anywhere in the Bible where it says that faith has nothing to do with God’s mercy. In Christ, Joe |