Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88998 | ||
I don't disagree with you here. However you have not addressed the topic of whether or not salvation can be forfeited or not. It seems like the topic of "once saved, always saved" is either being ignored, diverted, or left unaddressed, and unanswered. Neither did you comment on John 15:6 which I believe teaches that "once saved, always saved" is an unBibical teaching. Concerning the works topic Paul and James agree. See James 2:20, and Eph. 2:10 Also in Titus Paul had this to say concerning works. "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men." Titus 3:8 I will await your comments on the following verses. John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. The word "abide" comes from the Greek word meno which means to remain. In the case here it means to remain connected to Christ the vine I remain convinced. "Once saved, always saved" teachings as are presented by many today are unBibical. New Creature |
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2 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | ne14pool | 89021 | ||
New Creature, I wanted to share with you a portion of an expostion by a great preacher who once wrote in reference to John 15:6... But what is meant by, "Men gather them, and cast into the fire, and they are burned"? Observe, first, the plural pronouns. It is not "men gather him and cast into the fire, and he is burned," as it would most certainly have been had an unbeliever, a mere professor, been in view. The change of number here is very striking, and evidences, once more, the minute accuracy of Scripture. "Unless any one abide in me, he is east forth as a branch, and men gather them and cast into the fire and they are burned." The "them" and the "they" are what issues from the one who has been cast forth "as a branch." And what is it that issues from such a one—what but dead works: "wood, hay, stubble"! and what is to become of his "dead works." 1 Corinthians 3:15 tells us: "If any man’s work shall be burned (the very word used in John 15:6!), he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." Lot is a pertinent example: he was out of fellowship with the Lord, he ceased to bear fruit to His glory, and his dead works were all burned up in Sodom; yet he himself was saved! In Christ...Doug |
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3 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 89028 | ||
Doug Doug I find you intrepretation of John 15 to be faulty simply because John 15:6 specifically states: JohN 15:6 If a MAN abide not in me, HE (not it, or they as you suggest) is cast forth as a branch The plain reading of this verse is clear. Don't try to complicate it. New Creature |
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4 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | ne14pool | 89044 | ||
NC, This was not my interpretation, but I agree with what it is expounding. However, I believe you're missing the main point of this article. Please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. We have to read this verse in context. What is the topic of the first part of John 15? There is no doubt that the context is "bearing fruit", well we know that only Christians can bear true fruit that remains. I believe you are taking this verse out of context if you are attempting to make the topic suddenly change to salvation. That is not what is being discussed. The context is fruit bearing. Compare the first part of John 15 with 1 Cor 3:11-15 where it speaks again of good fruit and bad fruit... it says, "For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." NOTICE: The that he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping THROUGH the flames. Even believers will pass through the consuming fire of God's judgement when it comes to our works. If they are wood, hay and stubble (a.k.a. bad fruit not done on the foundation of Christ) then they will be consumed and in the fire like a dead branch, however if they are gold, silver or costly stones they will not be consumed but will pass through the fire along with the individual who passes through the fire even if he didn't have any or much fruit, he will make it through the fire. That is scriptural and I want to warn you to seriously consider what is being said here. In Christ...Doug PS Please read my posting that was made Fri 07/11/03, at 2:37am. It may shed further light upon this topic. |
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5 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 89119 | ||
Doug I find it sad that you feel you need to bring in a rewards verse to attempt to alter the plain teaching of the verses in John 15 Lets look at John 15:1-6 John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman Jesus says He is the true vine, and He says His Father is the husbandman (or vine dresser) John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. In the above verse, you will find mentioned two types of branches. (1)It is mentioned of the first type of branch which is described in the above verse. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit. Take notice that it says "every branch IN me (in Jesus) that bears not fruit. These branches are IN Him (in Christ). If any man be in Christ he is a new creature (see 2 Cor. 5:17). But although this first type of branch is IN Him it is said of them they these are those which do not bear fruit. Remember however they are in Him. (2) The second type of branch mentioned in the same verse, are those which bear fruit, these branches are purged, meaning pruned, so that they may bring forth even more fruit. John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. Above is the command to remain (abide) in Him. There is no hope of bearing fruit unless you REMAIN in Him. Why the command to REMAIN or abide, then if there is no danger? John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing In the above verse again we see that they are told they must abide (REMAIN) in Him, and then we will bear fruit. Fruit is the product of us, the branches, abiding or REMAINING connected to Jesus our vine Jesus says He is the vine, and we are the branches which are connected to the vine (Jesus). Jesus says he that remains in Him, and He in him, speaking of a unilateral relationship between the believer and Himself, brings forth much fruit. Without remaining connected to the vine (Jesus) we cannot bear fruit. John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. In the above verse we see that if a MAN remain not in Him, HE is cast forth (meaning cut off)and HE becomes withered, and men gather them (the branches that do not bear fruit) and cast them (us the branches into the fire and they are burned) You cannot continue to take John 15 out of context to the extent you have been doing to attempt to support the unBibical teaching of "once saved, always saved" The verses in John deal with people who are called branches, and it is people, who get cut off and burned in the fire in this verse, not works or bad fruit. The verses you use to try to explain away or alter the text of John 15 do not in any way work. There are plently of over verses in Scripture that you could better use to attempt to support the false teaching of "once saved, always,saved" other than 1 Cor. 3:11-15. Actually if you continue to read where you left off in 1 Cor. Chapter 3 you will find the following text. 1 Cor. 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are So why did you stop at verse 15? Love in Christ New Creature |
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