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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | JibbyJee | 89081 | ||
Hello NC! Well, I think you missed the point. How much CLEARER or EXPLICIT can Paul's KNOWLEDGE of the CERTAINTY of his salvation get than 2 Tim 4:18??? Let me suggest to you that you that no verse is an island unto itself. Proper hermaneutics are designed to allow God's word to say what it says and not what we want it to say. One of the rules is to always interpret the implicit (like John 15!!) with the explicit (2 Tim 4:18). Yet you refuse to consider that there ARE other viable interpretations to John 15 in light of ALL of Scripture. The Scripture is literally JAMPACKED with verses that support Perseverance of the Saints. So at best you are not being honest with the text, believing an apparent contradiction without any offer of resolution, resting solely on the interpretation of one verse and it's tradition of man. I hate contradictions. Contradictions are the antitheses of truth. If you really believe the Bible is true then reconcile the explicit teachings of 2 Tim 4:18 with John 15:6, for starters. Eagerly awaiting your response.... In Christ, Jibbs |
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2 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 89125 | ||
Jibbs Your right Scripture does not exist in a vaccuum. Thats why I don't use John 15 only to support why I believe "once saved, always, saved" as many are teaching it these days is unBibical. we also have Scripture such as John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended (John 16:1) KJV I have said all this to you to keep you from falling away. (RSV) I HAVE told you all these things, so that you should not be offended (taken unawares and falter, or be caused to stumble and fall away). (AMP) I have said all these things to you to keep you from falling away. (ESV) These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. (NKJV) These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not lose faith. (21st Century King James Version) I have told you these things so that you will not turn back. (Worldwide English New Testament) I have told you this so that you will not give up your faith (TEV) 4624 skandalizo (skan-dal-id'-zo) ("scandalize") from 4625; TDNT - 7:339,1036; v AV - offend 28, make to offend 2; 30 1) to put a stumbling block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall, metaph. to offend 1a) to entice to sin 1b) to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey 1b1) to cause to fall away 1b2) to be offended in one, i.e. to see in another what I disapprove of and what hinders me from acknowledging his authority 1b3) to cause one to judge unfavourably or unjustly of another 1c) since one who stumbles or whose foot gets entangled feels annoyed 1c1) to cause one displeasure at a thing 1c2) to make indignant 1c3) to be displeased, indignant These things have I spoken. Particularly what is mentioned in the two last chapters. Be offended. “That ye should not be stumbled.” May not fall away from the faith, nor receive any injury to your souls, as that man does to his body who stumbles or falls over a stone or block in the way which he has not discovered. (from Adam Clarkes Commentary on John 16:1) and: Heb. 6:4-6 4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: 8 but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. Heb. 6:4-8 ASV Love in Christ New Creature |
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3 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | JibbyJee | 89149 | ||
Greetings NC! How else would we know we are saved if there weren't teachers like John or Paul to include warnings to the church? Are such warnings the prescription for salvation? No. The warnings describe the actions of those who are TRULY born again by the spirit of God, and being born-again and God's workmanship (Eph. 2:10) they will not fail to obey. What you advocate is "Keep up with the Checklist--and be saved", effectively putting the cart before the horse. If we are saved, THEN the checklist will follow. Works follow salvation. The only ones who will obey are those who have been justified and are being sanctified. I find your usage of Hebrews 6:4-6 to be most curious. Have you ever fallen away? In Christ, Jibbs |
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4 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 89164 | ||
Jibbs I agree with you those who are truly saved will live a life of obedience. I never said otherwise. True persevering and enduring faith, will prove to be genuine, and give evidence to it's genuineness by works and the fruit which it naturally produces. We are not saved by works, but faith produces the works. Good works can never earn salvation, but they must accompany it. Also Jesus Himself said; “My brothers and my sisters are those that HEAR God’s word and PUT IT INTO PRACTICE.” Luke 8:21 NIV You said you find my usuage of Hebrews 6:4-6 to be most curious. All I did was post it, because it is probably one of the most often quoted passages used to prove that "once saved, always saved" is not a Bibical teaching. So I will repost it, so you might be able to tell me in your opinion what it says. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (Heb. 6:4-6 NASB) Finally you ask if I have ever fallen away? My answer is no, but I know some who appear to have, and have read stories of others who have. I have backslidden, at times, but thats not the same as a complete departing or apostasing away from the faith which when it happens that person cannot be renewed again. (Heb. 6:4-6) If you need more Scripture other than what I have already provided you with to prove that "once saved, always saved" as is being taught by many today is not Bibical, let me know, and I will also provide other Scripture for you to check out. Love in Christ New Creature |
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