Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | JibbyJee | 88943 | ||
Greetings New Creature! I hope you don't mind if I jump in the conversation mid-way. You've said repeatedly that you don't see any "real Scriptural support" of the OSAS doctrine, but you were able to see it, you would be. Well, I would hope so. I also hope you are sincere in your desire to understand the OSAS perspective and even to embrace it in all it's glorious splendor. The doctrine itself is derived from the Glory of Christ. You wrote:"" I agree, God is the author of our salvation. He authored and initiated salvation not us. But what has that got to do with the topic of whether or not salvation can be forfeited or not? Is there not any more solid support from the Bible than what you have provided so far? Give me something solid."" You agree that God AUTHORED our salvation. Good for you! Many "Christians" would even debate that, surprisingly! But let's take a look at the verse itself to see what else it says: Heb 12:2 looking unto Jesus the author AND PERFECTOR of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising shame, and hath sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. ,,,,AND PERFECTOR. Hmm... Would does that mean?? In Christ, JIBBS |
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2 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88962 | ||
I agree "God is the perfector of our faith" look at the previous verse to see what the believers responsibility is Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, "let us run with patience the race that is set before us" Paul compared the Christian life to a race. And I need not tell you that a race has both a starting line as well as a finish line. And not all who begin a race cross the finish line. Thanks anyway New Creature |
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3 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | JibbyJee | 89023 | ||
Dear NC: My friend, thanks for the reply. Here's something I've recently posted, and I hope to hear your take on it. It's concerning the Apostle Paul's belief that he (while still very much in the flesh) KNEW he was going to heaven. His KNOWLEDGE of this was even ALLOWED by God to be placed in SCRIPTURE and EXPLICITLY at that!! Please explain this: 2 Timothy 4:17 But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me, so that through me the proclamation might be fully accomplished, and that all the Gentiles might hear; and I was rescued out of the lion's mouth. 2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen. How do you explain this? Let me tell you, what God have revealed to me about Himself and the Grace he has bestowed upon me GUARANTEES that I will be saved and I know it more than I know anything else. Consider this as well and then tell me there is no "Biblcal proof" of eternal security based on these two passages and I will not say another word to you. 2 Corinthians 5:4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. Some versions read "deposit" instead of "pledge", but I'm sure you get the point. The Spirit GUARANTEES salvation-which is the PURPOSE of God! Praise Him! In Christ, JibbyJee |
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4 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 89029 | ||
Dear Jibby the very same apostle Paul who said; 2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. also said: 1 Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway The same Saviour who said, "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish" (Jn. 10:28) also said, "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." (Lk. 13:23-24) The same apostle Peter who said, "In his great mercy he has given us new birth . . . into an inheritance that can never perish" (1 Pet. 1:3-4) also said "Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Pet. 1:10) If "once saved, always saved was Bibical then why does God's word tell us in the following verse; John 15:6 If a man abide (Greek meno meaning remain) not in me, he is cast forth (some versions word it cut off) as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. New Creature |
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5 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | JibbyJee | 89081 | ||
Hello NC! Well, I think you missed the point. How much CLEARER or EXPLICIT can Paul's KNOWLEDGE of the CERTAINTY of his salvation get than 2 Tim 4:18??? Let me suggest to you that you that no verse is an island unto itself. Proper hermaneutics are designed to allow God's word to say what it says and not what we want it to say. One of the rules is to always interpret the implicit (like John 15!!) with the explicit (2 Tim 4:18). Yet you refuse to consider that there ARE other viable interpretations to John 15 in light of ALL of Scripture. The Scripture is literally JAMPACKED with verses that support Perseverance of the Saints. So at best you are not being honest with the text, believing an apparent contradiction without any offer of resolution, resting solely on the interpretation of one verse and it's tradition of man. I hate contradictions. Contradictions are the antitheses of truth. If you really believe the Bible is true then reconcile the explicit teachings of 2 Tim 4:18 with John 15:6, for starters. Eagerly awaiting your response.... In Christ, Jibbs |
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6 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 89125 | ||
Jibbs Your right Scripture does not exist in a vaccuum. Thats why I don't use John 15 only to support why I believe "once saved, always, saved" as many are teaching it these days is unBibical. we also have Scripture such as John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended (John 16:1) KJV I have said all this to you to keep you from falling away. (RSV) I HAVE told you all these things, so that you should not be offended (taken unawares and falter, or be caused to stumble and fall away). (AMP) I have said all these things to you to keep you from falling away. (ESV) These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. (NKJV) These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not lose faith. (21st Century King James Version) I have told you these things so that you will not turn back. (Worldwide English New Testament) I have told you this so that you will not give up your faith (TEV) 4624 skandalizo (skan-dal-id'-zo) ("scandalize") from 4625; TDNT - 7:339,1036; v AV - offend 28, make to offend 2; 30 1) to put a stumbling block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall, metaph. to offend 1a) to entice to sin 1b) to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey 1b1) to cause to fall away 1b2) to be offended in one, i.e. to see in another what I disapprove of and what hinders me from acknowledging his authority 1b3) to cause one to judge unfavourably or unjustly of another 1c) since one who stumbles or whose foot gets entangled feels annoyed 1c1) to cause one displeasure at a thing 1c2) to make indignant 1c3) to be displeased, indignant These things have I spoken. Particularly what is mentioned in the two last chapters. Be offended. “That ye should not be stumbled.” May not fall away from the faith, nor receive any injury to your souls, as that man does to his body who stumbles or falls over a stone or block in the way which he has not discovered. (from Adam Clarkes Commentary on John 16:1) and: Heb. 6:4-6 4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: 8 but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. Heb. 6:4-8 ASV Love in Christ New Creature |
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7 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | JibbyJee | 89149 | ||
Greetings NC! How else would we know we are saved if there weren't teachers like John or Paul to include warnings to the church? Are such warnings the prescription for salvation? No. The warnings describe the actions of those who are TRULY born again by the spirit of God, and being born-again and God's workmanship (Eph. 2:10) they will not fail to obey. What you advocate is "Keep up with the Checklist--and be saved", effectively putting the cart before the horse. If we are saved, THEN the checklist will follow. Works follow salvation. The only ones who will obey are those who have been justified and are being sanctified. I find your usage of Hebrews 6:4-6 to be most curious. Have you ever fallen away? In Christ, Jibbs |
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8 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 89164 | ||
Jibbs I agree with you those who are truly saved will live a life of obedience. I never said otherwise. True persevering and enduring faith, will prove to be genuine, and give evidence to it's genuineness by works and the fruit which it naturally produces. We are not saved by works, but faith produces the works. Good works can never earn salvation, but they must accompany it. Also Jesus Himself said; “My brothers and my sisters are those that HEAR God’s word and PUT IT INTO PRACTICE.” Luke 8:21 NIV You said you find my usuage of Hebrews 6:4-6 to be most curious. All I did was post it, because it is probably one of the most often quoted passages used to prove that "once saved, always saved" is not a Bibical teaching. So I will repost it, so you might be able to tell me in your opinion what it says. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (Heb. 6:4-6 NASB) Finally you ask if I have ever fallen away? My answer is no, but I know some who appear to have, and have read stories of others who have. I have backslidden, at times, but thats not the same as a complete departing or apostasing away from the faith which when it happens that person cannot be renewed again. (Heb. 6:4-6) If you need more Scripture other than what I have already provided you with to prove that "once saved, always saved" as is being taught by many today is not Bibical, let me know, and I will also provide other Scripture for you to check out. Love in Christ New Creature |
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