Results 1 - 15 of 15
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88369 | ||
Tim The fact that God will never leave or forsake us, in no way indicates that it is God that ever does the forsaking. It is not God that forsakes us, we, however can leave or forsake Him. It is called departing from the faith. (see 1 Tim 4:1) The fact that nothing can separate you from the LOVE of God in no way means that nothing cannot separate you from the LIFE that is in Christ. "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the LOVE OF GOD that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." In quoting this passage, the eternal security adherents argue that it proves that once we are saved we are always saved; and even though "sin" isn't mentioned in Paul's list, it is understood to be included, hence no sin committed after initial salvation will condemn a person! there is a definite DIFFERENCE between the "LOVE" of God as mentioned in Rom. 8:38,39 and the "LIFE" of God, according to Scripture! This is easily proven by noting that UNSAVED people are LOVED by God, even though they are devoid of His LIFE! A clear case in point is the rich, young ruler who was certainly UNSAVED, yet LOVED by Jesus (Mk.10:21)! It must be further noted that this same unsaved man, like all unsaved people, are separated from the LIFE of God," (Eph. 4:18) but, again, not separated from His LOVE! Since one only has salvation when he has the LIFE of God, Rom. 8:38,39 does NOT assure an unconditional salvation on the basis of God's infinite love!" (quoted from an unknown source) New Creature |
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2 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | John Reformed | 88387 | ||
Hello New Creature, You said: "The fact that God will never leave or forsake us, in no way indicates that it is God that ever does the forsaking. It is not God that forsakes us, we, however can leave or forsake Him. It is called departing from the faith. (see 1 Tim 4:1)" Is it not possible that those who departed from "the" faith might fall into the category of mere professors of the faith. Afterall, the fact they were with us and even professed to have faith is not the same as having saving faith. 1 John 2:18-20 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. "The fact that nothing can separate you from the LOVE of God in no way means that nothing cannot separate you from the LIFE that is in Christ." John 10:4 "When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. John 10:5 "A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers." John 18:9 to fulfill the word which He spoke, "Of those whom You have given Me I lost not one." Question: Do you really believe that the Good Sheperd will fail to keep all of his sheep safe, even from themselves? I wonder...at what point does "free-willism" become an idol between God and ourselves? When the verses of God's Holy Word are forced to bow before man's unconquerable will we have passed the bounds to a region of darkness where no child of God belongs. Thank GOD ALL MIGHTY!!! that no matter how far we stray, we are NEVER out of His infinite reach. John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, How does a doctrine which casts doubts on the ability of The Good Shepherd to keep His flock 100 percent intact glorify God? Answer: IT DOES'NT GLORIFY HIM AT ALL. JUST THE OPPOSITE! I implore you to think through your doctrine. What does it say about the power of God? If God cannot keep us from being lost a 2nd time (and this without remedy. Heb 6) then we are thrown back upon ourselves and ultimately must trust ourselves if we are to remain saved. This is nothing but works righteousness all over again. It leads back to Mount Sinai and the Law all over again. And we know that the Law is powerless to save. John |
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3 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88390 | ||
John As you well know there are two sides in this debate that has been on-going for hundreds of years. You have formed your opinions through Scripture, and I also have formed mine through prayerfully studying God's word to us. We could debate this endlessly but here is what the Bible in it's entirety says to me concerning the matter of "forsaking" The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you. 2 Chr. 15:2 because ye have forsaken the Lord, he hath also forsaken you. (2 Chr. 24:20) I will even forsake you saith the Lord. (Jer. 23:33) Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you ... and cast you out of my presence. (Jer. 23:39) If you forsake him he will cast you off. (1 Chr. 28:9 Hosea 9:17) "Heb 13:5 he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. This verse does not prove anything close to what people are trying to force their meaning to be. The truth is that Jesus will never leave us or forsake us, but we can leave or forsake Him. All these Scriptures are centered around God's actions and not the actions of the believer. God will never just decide to forsake any believer, ever! Yet, the believer may decide to forsake Him. Once a believer has forsaken God He then will give them up to themselves and forsake them. This does not contradict that He will never leave or forsake a believer, rather it affirms that God is not the one who does the forsaking. If we fall from the faith, it doesn’t reflect negatively upon God’s faithfulness, but rather on our unfaithfulness" (from an unknown source) New Creature |
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4 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | tj57h@cs.com | 88398 | ||
I asked for an example in new testement scripture you provided none. Salvation and rightiousness are by faith, and kept by faith thay are imputed and free gifts. Works does not get nor keep salvation. A lost person hears the word, believes in his hesrt and confesses the death burrial and resurection of Jesus Christ and becomes saved, born again. Hwe has passed from condemnation in his OLD condemned life in death to a new life in Christ, for Christ is our life, We get the fruit of faith and the gift of faith through him indewelling. Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. If christ lives in the believer, how can he possibly lose faith? We live by the faith of Christ. He is the believer in us. WE DO NOT SAVE OURSELVES BY OUR WORKS, CHRIST SAVES US AND THE HOLY SPIRIT SEALS US UNTILL THAT DAY! IT IS A FREE GIFT! Only a person who has believed in vain can forsake Christ:1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. If a person works for salvation he has fallen from grace:Click Verse for Commentary Notes Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. This does not mean you have become eternally condemned to hell it means his grace is shut off like a valve to be a living benefit to you, this explanes the lack of power and victory in the orginazed Church. I have an example of people who sined that were born again and died because of thier sin:Acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. Does not say they went to HELL. And those people who do not confess thier sin before they take comunion they got sick and died, Does not say they went to hell. 1cor 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation (judgement or chastisement, not eternal damnation in hell) to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. love, Tim Let me know when you come up with that example of a person in the New Testment that was born again and got eternally damned to hell, would you please! |
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5 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | Searcher56 | 88443 | ||
Eternal security has been discussed before ... Type in eternal security under Quick Search and read the points. |
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6 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | John Reformed | 88447 | ||
Dear Searcher, The lenghth of this thread shows an ongoing interest in the topic. If you follow it you will see that the current discussion probably arose from doing a search in the first place. John |
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7 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | EdB | 88452 | ||
John I think you mistake interest with endless and useless argueing. EdB |
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8 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | John Reformed | 88457 | ||
Sorry Ed, but I see it as the ceaseless pusuit of God's truth. I suppose, as the old saw says: "One man's meat is another man's poison". God Bless, John |
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9 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | EdB | 88509 | ||
John "Ceaseless"!!!! About 500 years ceaseless!!!!!!!! The problem is, nothing is being said that hasn't been said or written about hundreds of times before. I wonder if these verses pertain 2 Tim. 2:14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 2 Tim. 2:23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. 1 Tim. 1:4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 1 Tim. 6:4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, Now once again what does "all", “whosoever” and “world” mean? Is that not arguing over the meaning of words? Since it all has been said before and has been on going for 500 hundred years does that not give a clue that it is useless debate? Doesn't everyone that participates in this foolishness stand in opposition to these verses? Think about it! EdB |
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10 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | John Reformed | 88519 | ||
Hi Ed, I'm only 57 years old and have been engaged in these discussion for less than 2 years. I find them to be exciting as well as informative. They challenge me to examine my doctrines and to dig deeper and to pray for enlightenment. I can understand someone else feeling differently and have a certain amount of empathy for the way they feel. Nevertheless, it would be a great dis-appointment to me, if we were to give up on seeking the truth regarding the great doctrines of Christanity in favor of harmony. There is a very good reason why the church has continued to debate these issues over the centurys. THEY ARE IMPORTANT DOCTRINES! In fact they are so important that thousands of words have been said over the meaning of a single word and what that single word means. A proper understanding of the doctrines of grace has has a tremendously beneficial impact on my walk with Christ. They have shown me just how bereft of natural holiness I am and how dependent I am on God's mercy and grace. It is not my desire to upset you or to cause strife among the brethren. My desire is for God's glory alone. That is the reason for my participation on this forum. I appreciate your prayers but would request that instead praying for my being set free from calvinism; pray that God would enligten me to the truth. This should be our constant prayer for one another. John 3:27 John answered and said, "A man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven. God Bless Ed, John |
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11 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | EdB | 88520 | ||
John John good answer but one that did not address any of God’s objections. God said we should not argue over the meaning of words, surely you see that most of the discussion has been on the meaning of words, “all” doesn’t mean all it means… God says don’t cause strife yet many have gotten so angry they have left the forum completely. God says don’t argue on meaningless things yet if everyone would be perfectly honest we could all agree we do not completely understand God since God has not revealed everything to us. Therefore continued discussion of it is meaningless until God reveals it all. John can you explain how repeating the same thing over and over helps you understand your natural lack of holiness and therefore clarifies your understanding of grace? Informative? Exciting? John don’t you mean the challenge to ‘one up’ another is exciting and learning how to do it is informative. Then the questions is what are you feeding, your flesh or your spirit? What benefit has your spirit received from all of this? How does all of this fit into Jesus’ commission to go make disciples? To the new Christian or the unsaved most of this is meaningless and results in confusion and shows a nature of bickering and indecision within Christianity. It appears to be argument for arguments sake, with no conclusions being drawn, no decisions be made, no winner no loser just endless debate. EdB |
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12 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | John Reformed | 88533 | ||
Dear Ed, You asked "Now once again what does "all", “whosoever” and “world” mean? Is that not arguing over the meaning of words?" You then provided the following verses mant to support your arguement: 2 Tim. 2:14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Ed, God does not object to our struggle to rightly discern the "word of truth". If the proper understanding hangs upon the meaning of a single word, like the good workman, we must labor over it until we hane got it right. The proper understanding of Scripture is never unprofitable and brings wealth and never ruin. 2 Tim. 2:23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. Here again, I'm certain that Paul is not speaking of searching the Scripture. Neither do I believe that Titus 3:9, 1 Tim. 1:4 or 1 Tim. 6:4 apply to debates over God's Word. Jesus was concerned over jots and tittles. 2 Tim 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. Accuracy demands knowing (within the bounds of human capacity) the meaning of each word in each verse contained in Scripture. This will be (God willing) my last reply to the arguement against not arguing over words that may or may not have ambiguous meanings. Now if you want to critisize those who argue about topics, such as, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?", then I'm with you all the way! God Bless Ed, John |
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13 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | EdB | 88541 | ||
John Is the meaning of "all" important or is salvation important? Is the meaning of "whosoever" important or is love important? Is the meaning of "world" important or is Christina fellowship important? John this is dancing on a the head of a pin, what is important than you and I are saved. We should be sharing the message of Jesus with the world not arguing over whether we choose or God choose to save us. If either of us could supply conclusive proof to end this argument right now, we would, and what would be the result? Would that change either of our positions in the kingdom, would it draw others closer, would it hasten Jesus' second coming? The answer is no! I think that nets down to useless arguement in God's book. I still think Searcher56 is to be commended on his attempt to stop another round of useless debate. EdB |
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14 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | John Reformed | 88548 | ||
Dear Ed, "Is the meaning of "all" important or is salvation important?" There are no unimportant words in the Bible. Of course, somethings are more important than others. I do consider the basis upon which we are saved an essential element of salvation; not because it determines salvation itself, but it shows why God alone is to be glorified for providing it. If we say that God makes salvation merely available, that opens the door to man who can take credit for the spark of goodness in prompting his choice. I will concede that true believers would never consider boasting, for in their hearts they know that their salvation was a work of God from top to bottom and from inside to out. It's a shame that their theology oft-times contradicts their experience. You said: "If either of us could supply conclusive proof to end this argument right now, we would, and what would be the result? Would that change either of our positions in the kingdom, would it draw others closer, would it hasten Jesus' second coming? The answer is no! I think that nets down to useless arguement in God's book." I would not presume to say what the outcome of an absolutely unified church would bring. But I do know it would be by God's providence and to His glory. John 3:27 John answered and said, "A man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven. John |
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15 | examples of disobedient people who died | Luke 8:13 | EdB | 88687 | ||
John I agree with you about the possibilities of a unified church. Quite frankly that is exactly what I promoted for years, even though it has cost me dearly. However after my experience on this forum and seeing how Calvin's teachings can effect others, I'm in process of ridding my library of all his teachings. Funny at one time I referenced Calvin often many (most) times to the dismay of my peers, I honestly never saw the dark side of his teaching until I witnessed what has been displayed on this forum. I view any thought of a unified church as impossible until man realizes he can not explain what God has not revealed. And when he (man) attempts to make doctrine based on these theories he will divide and separate the church. Christianity is a religion of unity and love yet when man insists on injecting his thoughts it become twisted and distorted. Love and unity gets lost to ego and desire to be right. EdB |
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