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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can a believer lose his salvation? | Luke 8:13 | jg8ball | 252 | ||
This verse does not imply that once you are saved you are always saved. Jesus says if you come to Him, He will not cast you out. It does not say that the person will still be saved if they renounce their salvation. | ||||||
2 | Can a believer lose his salvation? | Luke 8:13 | bjanko | 293 | ||
How does a "saved" person "renounce" his salvation? It's not common for a saved person to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, is it? If a "saved" person renounced his salvation, it would only demonstrate that he had never been saved to begin with. Since when does the omnipotent Jesus save someone only to have them cast off what He has predetermined to do for them since the beginning of time? |
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3 | Predetermined or Free Will | Luke 8:13 | jg8ball | 309 | ||
I have a couple questions with what you stated. 1: Where does it say that Jesus is omnipotent? Jesus says in Mat 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven nor the Son, but only the Father." If Jesus were omnipotent as you say, He would have known the day and hour. 2: God has predetermined that his plan of salvation will be carried out. This does not mean that he has predetermined who will and will not be saved. God wants everyone to be saved (If you need several versus to back this up, let me know). He provided the means for that to happen through the death and ressurection of Jesus. It is our choice whether to accept his Gift or not. From the very beginning, Adam and Eve made the choice to eat from the tree of knowledge even after God told them not to. In Josh 24:15, "But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve... In 1 Kings 18:21, the worshippers at Mt. Carmel were invited to choose that day whom they would serve, either Baal or God. In Isaiah 5:20, the people were certainly capable of choosing between good and evil. Why are we given the warning in Matt 7:15 ("Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.") if we were predestined to be saved or not? Matt 7:21 says that only the people that choose to do the will of God will enter Heaven. Luke 13:3 tells us that unless we repent (our choice), we will perish. Matt 19:23-24 says that it is harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. If we were predetermined, then wouldn't it be just as easy (or hard)? John 3:16 ...whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. In John 7: 17-18, If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself... In Romans 1:17-32 is clear that man has chosen evil and is not predetermined to do so. Heb 9:27-28 tells us that we are to face judgment when we die. What would be the need of a judgment if we were predetermined. There are many more versus that talk about our choice which I will post if needed. 3: To renounce your salvation would be to turn your back on God, to no longer believe or accept his Gift. To no longer follow the teachings of Christ. Granted, you could always say that person wasn't really saved then. But then what would you say would have happened to that person if they died prior to that drastic change? And if you say that the person must not have been chosen by God to be saved and was only fooling themselves when they truely believed in Christ and thought they were saved then can you say for sure that anyone is saved? Did Jesus die for everyone or just for a select few? I can show you several versus that show that He died for all, can you show one that says otherwise? Then if Jesus did die for all, how could there be some that God predetermined not to be save? |
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4 | Predetermined or Free Will | Luke 8:13 | kalos | 312 | ||
"Election is the act of God whereby in eternity past He chose those who will be saved. Election is unconditional, because it does not depend on anything outside of God, such as good works or foreseen faith (Romans 9:16). This doctrine is repeatedly taught in the Bible, and is also demanded by our knowledge of God. . . . No sinner can ever make the first move in the salvation process. This is what Jesus meant in John 6:44, when He said, "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him." . . . Ephesians 1:4-5,11 reads, "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will . . . also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will." . . . (www.gty.org(slash)IssuesandAnswers(slash)archive(slash) See this website for more information on the Bible doctrine of election. |
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5 | How do you then interpret the verses... | Luke 8:13 | jg8ball | 321 | ||
How do you then interpret the verses I listed (and the many others) that talk about "our choice"? I've talked to other Calvinists and they all ignore the verses about our choice in the Bible and quote out a few verses that can be interpreted to fit their needs. The "Free Will" theory holds up throughout the Bible while the "Predestined" theory holds up only in a few parts of the Bible and each of these parts can also be interpreted using the "Free Will" theory. ---------------------------------- You mentioned John 6:44. I agree that no sinner can make the first move in the salvation process. Fortunately, God has already made the first move through Jesus. It's now up to us to accept this. Also, if you put John 6:44 in context and read the entire section, you'll see a whole different meaning. John 6:38-40 - tells us that Jesus is sent to do the Father's will which is that EVERYONE who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life. John 6:44 in simply saying that no one is going to Heaven unless God Allows it. God wants everyone to be saved (this is backed up by other verses I'll supply if needed). John 6:45 "...EVERYONE who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me." It doesn't say "only those I choose will come to me" John 6:47 "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." John 6:51 "...This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." He's saying that he will give his life for the world, not a elect group in the world. ------------------------------------- Eph 1:4-5,11. Again, put it in context. God predestined us as a whole not a group to have the opportunity to be saved. When it talks about us being predestined for foreknew, it's talking about God's plan - that through Jesus we can be saved. When it talks about the Elect, that's simply another way to talk about the people that have accepted Jesus. Today, we use the terms Christian, born-again, believers, etc... Back to Ephesians, at the end of chapter 1, Paul tells them that they were included in Christ when they heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation. In other words, when they heard about Jesus, they were included in God's plan. Paul next states that "Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,..." Notice the "Having believed" -- this implies that they had a choice to believe or not. ------------------------------------ A couple other question to ponder: If God chooses only some people to be saved and not others and we have no control over that then why did Adam and Eve eat the fruit? Why did God flood the world to remove all the evil people? Why did Jesus have to die for our sins? If God decides alone who will and will not go to Heaven, why did these things (and others) happen? But if God wants everyone to be saved, but through his great love allows us to make the choice, then these things are easily explained. |
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6 | How do you then interpret the verses... | Luke 8:13 | kalos | 351 | ||
I want to thank you for the dialogue we've been having. I do appreciate your views and I hope I can be of some help. Of course, the Calvinism vs. Arianism debate has been raging for centuries. It is said that every Christian believes in Election; but not every Christian defines Election in the same way. Because of the length of my answer, I will send this in 2 parts. . . . WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH ABOUT ELECTION? Election is the act of God whereby in eternity past He chose those who will be saved. Election is unconditional, because it does not depend on anything outside of God, such as good works or foreseen faith (Romans 9:16). This doctrine is repeatedly taught in the Bible, and is also demanded by our knowledge of God. To begin with, let's look at the biblical evidence. . . . The Bible says prior to salvation, all people are dead in sin-- spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-3). In this state of death, the sinner is utterly unable to respond to any spiritual stimulus and therefore unable to love God, obey Him, or please Him in any way. Scripture says the mind of every unbeliever "is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Romans 8:7-8, emphasis added). That describes a state of total hopelessness: spiritual death. . . . The effect of all this is that no sinner can ever make the first move in the salvation process. This is what Jesus meant in John 6:44, when He said, "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him." . . . This is also why the Bible repeatedly stresses that salvation is wholly God's work. In Acts 13:48 we read, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." . . . Acts 16 tells us that Lydia was saved when, " . . . the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul." . . . Romans 8:29-30 states, "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." . . . Ephesians 1:4-5,11 reads, "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will . . . also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will." . . . Ephesians 2:8 suggests that even our faith is a gift from God. In 2 Thessalonians 2:13, the apostle Paul tells his readers, "God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation." . . . Second Timothy 1:9 informs us that God "has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity." . . . (article by John MacArthur at www.gty.org - listed in Issues and Answers archives) To be continued in next message. |
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7 | How do you then interpret the verses... | Luke 8:13 | Fay | 71805 | ||
That was not the verse. The Lords prayer. Our Father who art in heaven how will be thy name. Thy Kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespass as we forgive those who trespass against us and led us not into temptation but deliver us from evil Amen! | ||||||
8 | Our Father Who art in Heaven how will b | Luke 8:13 | Fay | 71806 | ||
I just want to know where in the Bible is the Lords prayer? | ||||||
9 | Our Father Who art in Heaven how will b | Luke 8:13 | Fay | 71807 | ||
Where in the bible can I find This Prayer? Our Father who art in heaven how well be thy name. Thy Kingdom Come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us for our trespass as we forgive those who trespass against us and led us not into temptation and deliver us from evil. Amen! | ||||||
10 | Our Father Who art in Heaven how will b | Luke 8:13 | glory777 | 71808 | ||
Matthew 6:9 | ||||||