Results 1 - 2 of 2
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can a believer lose his salvation? | Luke 8:13 | userdoe220 | 9712 | ||
When I got saved in 1988 I did not grow up in church and for the first 6 months did not attend a church anywhere (I am not condoning this, just stating the facts). I read through the entire N.T. twice during this period and never once got the idea that once we were saved we were "always saved." I read the Bible without any pre-concieved ideas (No Charles Stanley this is how you should interpret verses that contradict how I believe manuals). In fact (show you how niave I was), I believe every Christian believed that you could walk away from your faith. I mean if Paul felt he could and the author of Hebrews I felt I was in good company. Well, finally I became gainfully employed at McDonalds (I was 16 at the time) and ran across my first "Once saved always saved" believer. He was married, cheating on his wife, smoked like a race horse and drank profusely. I began to share with him the salvation message with him and he told me he was saved! I said, "You must be crazy to think you are saved living like that!" after the, "Judge not lest you be judged" passage was quoted, he began to tell me that his pastor told him he was saved because he went down the isle when he was 12 (the age of accountability) and was baptized later that year. I told him that he needed to go to a Bible-Believing church and not get wrapped up in some cult (again, I don't believe you are a cult, this is the way I saw things back than.). I thought his church was completly false and his pastor was way off base. After all, how could someone read the Bible (the 1st year I was saved I read the entire Bible 2x and a number of books in the N.T. more than 3x) and come to that crazy conclusion. Since that expereince, I have ran into many people who believe that once you are saved you are always saved (and please spare me the "he did not truly understand the 5 points of calvanism and he was never truly saved to begin with...") I have read a number of books on this topic from the other perspective: So Great a Salvation, Ryrie Systematic Theology, Wayne Gruden. Systematic Theology, Hodge Chosen but Free, Geisler (at least he admits to a problem with calvanistic theology. His book tries to wed the two concepts.) Countless commentaries that mangle the plain meaning of a text to force a passage into thier belief system! and will admit that there are a couple(emphasis) passages of scripture I have to scratch my head on and leave it to the Lord: Jn 6 and Rom 8. The other worn out passages are easily explained by context. Over my studies I have ran across more than two scriptures with very little explanation offered by my opponants on this matter: Galatians 1:6-8 Heb 10:26-31 Heb 6:4-6 II Pet 2:20-22 Mt 10:22 Mt 13:21 Rom 11:20-23 II Pet 2:15 Jude 21 Heb 3:6 I Tim 4:1 And I could go on, and on and on. These are passages, unaided from some commentary trying to tell me what they should say, that I beleive firmly debunks once saved always saved. |
||||||
2 | Can a believer lose his salvation? | Luke 8:13 | Jeanne1 | 80868 | ||
Note: I worried for a long time after becoming a Christian, as I found the Lord in a denomination that based it's foundations in guilt.. It was scary to me, that I could do something unconcsious that might "take my salvation" A pastor explained it so.... Romans 1: 18 - 21...where we are told that all of us are born with a knowledge of God,..Romans 9:14 where it says He will have compassion..etc. If you choose God, HE will have compassion on you and give you the gift of faith which is required to believe in the gospel. Also in Romans 8: 15 For you ) have not received a spirit of slavery, v38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord I read that you are not too crazy about Romans, and think that people are taking things out of context...here's Hebrews 11 for you: 14 For by one offering He has (29) perfected (30) for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 17 "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. Meaning that once you have been saved, there is nothing further that is necessary...either backwards or forwards. God has removed all stain, and remembers no more. It is the new Covenant. The Bible also says that when we stand before God, He alone will judge our actions after salvation...and we shall be rewarded accordingly. IF you act really bad, according to earthly judgment, then what? The Bible also says that if you commit one sin you commit them all. There's a mouthful - we are for instance commended NOT to even look upon something evil...as it is sin. If all sin is equal in the eyes of God, and we know this for the punishment for all sin is the same...then by just considering sin, is the same as doing it, plus all others. It took me awhile to get through that one. Still, for me, the verses that convinced me were in Romans...nothing can separate us from the love of God. If you go through the final chapters of the letters written by Paul to the churches, you will find in the last chapters, he names people who were in the faith who did some really nasty things to their brethren...Paul doesn't say "they're going to hell, they have lost their salvation" he says God will deal with them appropriately, and to avoid them until they smarten up. If we stick to that thinking however, Paul would never had found the Lord...Paul was Saul, a very scary guy who went around killing Christians prior to his conversion. If Anaias had not been obedient as well as Barnabas where would the church have been? Paul was a Pharisee. The Pharisees were the bunch who gave the law. Each group gave the law, and loved to debate it. If you want to know what they debated, get a copy of the Talmud in English, and read the Sanhedrin Tractate...it is interesting... Paul admitted to easily reverting back to his old way of thinking, and he finally wrote to the church, "just because we have been forgiven, and can repent, are we supposed to go on sinning just because we can?"..Paul also admitted to "slipping" when he writes to the church, " I do the things I don't want to do,...." So, if Paul could "burn the bisquit" so to speak, and still be such an instrument of God, how do you think you loose your salvation? Through disobedience? I don't think so. Take Abraham and Sarah, they are talked about in Hebrews 11. God promises them a son, when it's ridiculous to do so. They waited 10 years for this to come true...and took matters into their own hands, as they thought, maybe God meant this.. or that. Well, Hagar has a son, who becomes the father of the Arab world, and THEN Sarah has her baby boy. It must have been hell on wheels in that house.. Sarah sends Hagar and her boy to the desert to die. Die he did not, and the consequences of that disobedience by Abraham and Sarah are felt to this day. However, Abraham was still called a man of faith...and no one ever thought he lost his place with God. Talk about making a mess, with self will, or thinking we know the mind of God. I am convinced that we cannot loose our salvation. God says NOTHING can separate us from him...not even principalities...and that is pretty much the only way you would curse God, after knowing Him. How about where Peter disowns Jesus the night before the crucifixion? Jesus even predicted that Peter would do that...remember the rooster crowing three times? That's cursing God, and turning away from Him. It was not held against Peter, and he was a founder of the early church. I hope that helps for answering this question. It worked for me. Any comments? |
||||||