Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Predetermined or Free Will | Luke 8:13 | jg8ball | 80885 | ||
God loves us (everyone) whether we are saved or not - and nothing will or can stop Him from loving us - not even principalities. I'm not as strong in my opinion as to whether once saved always saved is true as I am in that God has put into motion a plan for salvation that EVERYONE can choose this plan to be saved. I don't believe that God has selected only a few ELECT people to have the opportunity to be saved. But back to once saved always saved. If that was true, why then all the warnings to guard your salvation? You mentioned Peter - What if he didn't repent but ran away instead? Same for Saul - What if he said "Hey, I'd rather be blind than to promote that Jesus thing."? God gave us the ability to choose for ourselves the path we take. While it's true that no one can take our salvation away from us, I just see to many examples in the bible that imply that we (being human) may choose to deny it and fall away - for whatever extreme reason. Some would argue that they were never saved in the first place. I would then ask those people how they know that they are truly saved then? My faith grows the more I realize that I need God. I understand (and am fully aware) that I'm not perfect and I do sin and maybe even sometimes run away from God - but I know that God still loves me and calls me His own. I'm still saved. I have always come back and never ever thought about rejecting God. But what about those people that walked and talked the path to God thru Jesus, accepted Him fully, was baptized, attended church and church funtions, witnessed to others, etc... but later because of maybe a loss of children or spouse or maybe over time because he though that he could not lose his salvation became stagnant and fell into the ways of the world and forgot about God over time and then died. Are they still saved? Truely - only God knows for sure. Keep in mind that these are my interpretations of what I read and studied from the Bible. Why we have so many different views - I don't know. All I know for sure is that God loved us so much that if He didn't do something to get us back on track we were going to end up in a big mess again. The only thing He could do that would get through our thick skulls (although some still refuse to believe) is to to become human and show us who God really is and what it really means to serve Him. Jesus died for us once and for all as a final sacrifice for our sins. No more pigeon killing. No more slaughtering of Lambs. Jesus is our new convenant with God - and just to prove it God raised Jesus so that many would witness and spread the truth so that we too would hear it through the written word. Now that I've written way more than planned, I'll end. I hope I didn't ramble on too much and sorry if I did. |
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2 | Predetermined or Free Will | Luke 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 80890 | ||
Hi, you wrote: "I don't believe that God has selected only a few ELECT people to have the opportunity to be saved." I believe in the biblical teachings on election (although your wording of it is pretty ambiguous), but the "once-saved-always-saved" doctrines are held by many on both sides of that debate. 'But back to once saved always saved. If that was true, why then all the warnings to guard your salvation?' Like where? "You mentioned Peter - What if he didn't repent but ran away instead?" What did Jesus say about this? "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers." --Luke 22:31-32 Seems like his "turning again" was certain. No "what if's" about it. 'Same for Saul - What if he said "Hey, I'd rather be blind than to promote that Jesus thing."?' What did the Lord say to Ananias? 'But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."' --Acts 9:15-16 Doesn't seem to be a consultation session with Paul to see what he thinks about it. God chose him, was going to use him to bear His name, and was going to show him how much he must suffer for the sake of Christ. God changed Paul in such a way that he would not walk away. "Some would argue that they [i.e. those who fall away]were never saved in the first place. I would then ask those people how they know that they are truly saved then?" By the changed life that God has wrought in me, and by the fruit that is in keeping with repentance, and by my continued trust in God's promises to preserve me for glory. --Joe! |
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3 | Predetermined or Free Will | Luke 8:13 | jg8ball | 80893 | ||
Hey Joe - long time no write. If you remember, I've answered your questions before but if you want me to, I'll do so again. To answer the new questions: --Luke 22:31-32 Jesus prayed to God that Peter be given the strength not too lose his faith (seems to imply that you can lose your faith) but it was still Peter's choice what to do with that strength. Fortunately, he accepted it and repented. We're also taught to pray specifically and as if it has already been accepted. Just as Jesus did here. --Acts 9:15-16. Yes, God chose Saul/Paul to be His instrument and because Time doesn't exist for God as it does for us, He knew that Saul would accept the mission. If Saul would have refused, I think God would have found someone else and we'd be reading about that person instead. God gave us the ability to choose our own paths. Some choose good, some bad. He wants us to choose to love Him. He doesn't want us to be "programmed" to love him automatically. Would you rather have your kids choose to love you or would you rather force them to love you (kind of like Saddam)? |
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4 | Predetermined or Free Will | Luke 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 80897 | ||
"Would you rather have your kids choose to love you or would you rather force them to love you (kind of like Saddam)?" 1. Do you think Saddam forces his own kids to love him? 2. If the two possible outcomes are going to hell and God causing me (and effectual calling does not necessarily involve coercion) to love Him, I am glad to be in category (b). --Joe! |
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5 | Predetermined or Free Will | Luke 8:13 | jg8ball | 80904 | ||
I believe you're in category (b) because you choose to accept God's gift of salvation and not because God implanted in you the idea that that's the only choice you have. Why must you diminish God's free gift to all by spouting that His gift is only for the few Elect and that other people are destined to Hell and have no chance of salvation? Why can't you see that when they talk about the Elect in the Bible, they are referring to Belivers? Why can't you see that the predestination mentioned is that, thru Jesus, all people will have access to the Kingdom of God? I assume you too have read thru the bible many times (specifically the NT) looking at what the bible is actually saying and basing your interpretations on that and not on what you've been taught by others. And when doing so, you've been brave enough to question beliefs that may differ from what you've previously thought and investigate those differences until you find a solution that incorporates the bible as a whole - posibly even changing your views. If so, then maybe God has a reason for both of us to have differing viewpoints because I have done so and still find the Elect theory to be very flawed. Maybe my eyes are just closed for some reason but until God shows me where my interpretations are wrong, I have to stick with what He's shown me so far. I wish we could actually get together sometime and sitdown for a day or 10 and pray and study the scripture together. I think we would both come out enlightened. Your friend in Christ, John |
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6 | Predetermined or Free Will | Luke 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 80951 | ||
"I believe you're in category (b) because you choose to accept God's gift of salvation and not because God implanted in you the idea that that's the only choice you have." I know you do. "Why must you diminish God's free gift to all by spouting that His gift is only for the few Elect and that other people are destined to Hell and have no chance of salvation?" Not that I see it as diminishing anything, but I believe what I do because I am convinced it is what the Bible reveals. "Why can't you see that when they talk about the Elect in the Bible, they are referring to Belivers?" I see that perfectly. "Why can't you see that the predestination mentioned is that, thru Jesus, all people will have access to the Kingdom of God?" Because it isn't in the Bible that way. "Maybe my eyes are just closed for some reason but until God shows me where my interpretations are wrong, I have to stick with what He's shown me so far." And we will respectfully disagree. I don't think that your eyes have been closed, per se. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries was once asked by a skeptic why there were so many denominations in Christianity. His answer makes a good amount of sense: denominations exist because we pick and choose what parts of the Bible we are going to believe. We are all guilty of that in one area or another, because our natural tendency is to try and make God into an idol that we are more comfortable with. When Christians sincerely disagree on an issue, the heart of that disagreement often stems from one or both refusing to let go of some preconceived notion about God and His attributes and the way He operates. I am undoubtedly guilty of that myself, but I am convinced otherwise in this case. "I wish we could actually get together sometime and sitdown for a day or 10 and pray and study the scripture together. I think we would both come out enlightened." Perhaps we would. My experience in most cases is that people just go away frustrated and angry. It would be nice to see less bitterness if we must differ. May God bless you! --Joe! |
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