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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88923 | ||
Let me address some of the verses you use which supposedly are as you say either misinterpreted, or used to support the unBibical "once saved, always saved" teaching. You and others have said that Heb. 6:4-6 is only a hypothetical circumstance. I disagree. There is no conditional participle present in the Greek text to support any claims that the word “if” in Heb. 6:6 was in the original text. The writer in Hebrews simply says to us …. kai parapesontas – “and they have fallen away” (second aorist active participle). The Greek conjunction “kai” usually means “and” has an adversative force here, meaning and yet. The writer is saying “they had all these blessings and yet in spite of all this, they have still fallen away” (A.T. Robertson) The NEB translates the phrase, “and after all this” There is nothing in either the language or the context to indicate that the instances of apostasy cited in Heb. 6:4-6 are only hypothetical. Those who hold to the unconditional eternal security position take this text to say that “this is not a warning of apostasy, but rather a warning against imagining that apostasy is possible.” Their reasoning comes from Paul’s statement “But beloved, we are persuaded better things of you.” They fail to reckon with the transition from the third person (those, they, and them) in verses 4-6 to the second person (you) in verse 9. The writer is persuaded of better things for “you” not “them” C. H. Spurgeon believed those described in Hebrews 6:4-6 were obviously saved but the situation posed was hypothetical. Spurgeon built his whole case on the little word if—"if they shall fall away" (Hebrews 6:6). Spurgeon claimed it had never happened yet. Unfortunately, Spurgeon didn’t know Greek and he was unaware that there is no if in the Greek at all. As a matter of fact those described in Hebrews 6:4-6 had already fallen away. Parapesontas is an aorist participle, which is to be translated either as those who "fell away" or those "having fallen away." Their fall was a fact. Concerning Rom 8 which many like to use to support their belief in "once saved, always saved" let me just add this. "Certainly, one of the most commonly misunderstood passages in the Bible is Rom. 8:38,39, as commonly presented by the eternal security teachers of our day. These two often-mentioned verses say: "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the LOVE OF GOD that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." In quoting this passage, the eternal security adherents argue that it proves that once we are saved we are always saved; and even though "sin" isn't mentioned in Paul's list, it is understood to be included, hence no sin committed after initial salvation will condemn a person! there is a definite DIFFERENCE between the "LOVE" of God as mentioned in Rom. 8:38,39 and the "LIFE" of God, according to Scripture! This is easily proven by noting that UNSAVED people are LOVED by God, even though they are devoid of His LIFE! A clear case in point is the rich, young ruler who was certainly UNSAVED, yet LOVED by Jesus (Mk.10:21)! It must be further noted that this same unsaved man, like all unsaved people, are separated from the LIFE of God," (Eph. 4:18) but, again, not separated from His LOVE! Since one only has salvation when he has the LIFE of God, Rom. 8:38,39 does NOT assure an unconditional salvation on the basis of God's infinite love!" (source unknown) Concerning the over-use phrase "let really saved in the first place" which you and many others often echo. I will merely add this. Paul wrote about some who "made ship-wreck of their faith" (1 Tim. 1:19,20) unlike many in our day Paul did not say of these who shipwrecked their faith, they were never really saved to begin with. If I could give you just one verse that should allow you to understand that "once saved, always saved" is unBibical it would be the following verse, although there are many more as well. John 15:6 If a man abide (Greek meno maeaning remain)not in me, he is cast forth (some versions say cut off) as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. In His service New Creature |
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2 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | nivlac5 | 88930 | ||
New Creature, You seem to be cutting and pasting scripture and adhearing to some neo-gnostic thought with your interpretations. Do you believe and trust the promises of God? By God's grace I pray that you do. With the doctrine of eternal insecurity we are only left to stand in front of God with the robes of our own self righteousness Is 64:6. I prefer to trust God's word and stand before God with the robes of Christ righteousness. The scriptures such as Heb and John 15 say nothing about the individuals being make alive or regenerated,they had a said faith rather than a real living faith. It seems that the crux of this issue is a misuderstanding on what it is that saves people, certainly if it were up to men to save themselves and maintain it, we would lose it.Again I ask, who is the Author of our faith? Heb 12,Phil 3:8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith. In Love,Brad |
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3 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88933 | ||
I agree, God is the author of our salvation. He authored and initiated salvation not us. But what has that got to do with the topic of whether or not salvation can be forfeited or not? Is there not any more solid support from the Bible than what you have provided so far? Give me something solid. You will have to do better than that if you hope to convince me that "once saved, always saved" is Bibical I remain unconvinced because of any real lack of Scriptural support as yet. Love in Christ New Creature |
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4 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | jlpangilinan | 88937 | ||
New creature, So do you think that salvation is like a game having it today win tommorow lose in the other day and have it it again the other week. Do you think God is not very precise to know who of those repented will going to back slide and who will continue serving Him. John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; John 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. John 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. The proble is who is belong to that flock? You? me? the people we think is save but maybe not? Matt 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. When you are saved it is Christ lives in you according to paul. Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. Now if Christ lives in you do you think you can backslide or turn around? Do you think you can still be decieve by the devil? Do you think Christ will leave you behind? NOT! Matt 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." God bless, |
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