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NASB | Romans 5:6 ¶ For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 5:6 ¶ While we were still helpless [powerless to provide for our salvation], at the right time Christ died [as a substitute] for the ungodly. |
Subject: Christ dying only for elect? |
Bible Note: *Sigh.* Well, I can see from your mean-spritedness just how wrong I was! Thanks for showing me the light of Arminian truth! :) Where is the verse saying that God OBLIGATED himself to "try and save everyone"? Not the verses saying that all those who believe are saved, since that is not a point of contention between the two camps. Where does it say that God has bound Himself to making a go at saving all? Acts 10:34-43 does not contradict the Calvinist perspective. Christ didn't die just to save Jews, which is what the crux of the argument between Peter and the Jerusalem church will be. By the way, it seems from the account of Cornelius that God pretty much had him elected for salvation. There are elect among Gentiles, as God clearly corrects Peter to understand. I use the word "kindness" because it is the word Paul used to describe God's motivation to save some of our wretched species. (Ephesians 1:4-6). His kindness and mercy toward some (not all -- Romans 9:15-16,18) leads to saving grace and regeneration on their part. What does the address label of Romans have to do with Paul's arguments regarding the univarsal sinfulness of all mankind and the showing of mercy to some and not to others? You seem to be contending that we "elected" ourselves here. Is that what 1 Peter 1 tells us? Is that what Ephesians 1 tells us? Nolan, this entire debate between us boils down to one thing: FREE WILL. You contend that we have the moral capability to choose God at some point. You refuse to even consider the possibility that your axiom here might not be so axiomatic. I contend (as does the Word of God) that we are not in any way ever inclined to follow God, and to place any part of the decision upon us gives us reason to boast. Since this debate has now degenerated to a point where you are mocking me, I feel it is best that we give it a rest for a while. There are more than enough posts here back and forth that our cases have been made, and I will be more than happy to let you have the last word. The truth, thankfully, does not depend on you or me, and I believe in a God who is sovereign enough not to need us repeating ourselves ad nauseam to reveal His truth. --Joe! |