Prior Book | Prior Chapter | Prior Verse | Next Verse | Next Chapter | Next Book | Viewing NASB and Amplified 2015 | |
NASB | Romans 5:6 ¶ For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 5:6 ¶ While we were still helpless [powerless to provide for our salvation], at the right time Christ died [as a substitute] for the ungodly. |
Bible Question:
Only this section of your comment will be addressed: "The problem here is that you are taking it as axiomatic that unregenerate man in any way has the ability to "choose God," that he is morally free to do so. Please show us in Scripture where it declares that man's will is free in this regard." Man's will is certainly not 'free' but GOD did send the Holy Spirit. This debate is old and tired! I always get into it because people actually think they are 'wise' enough to understand the intricate workings of GOD, and perhaps I am hoping someone out there is wise enough. But usually people simply misinterpret Scripture in an attempt to feel like they understand. I hope you will show me the proof I am in need of! See John 16:8-11, "And, He (Holy Spirit), when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. Now, if the HS convicts 'the world' it's safe to assume that 'the world' includes everyone; but I know you don't assume that! So, if the HS convicts 'the world' and the ruler of 'this world' is judged, what part of 'the world' did satan not rule over before he was judged? As I am sure you know, Rom 3:10-18 states clearly that we are(were) all under sin, doesn't that mean we were under the control of satan? I'm sure you know that these are the same exact words for 'world' in the Greek text, so there is no play on words here, at least there is no evidence of it in the Greek. So, if the HS convicts the world concerning sin, and if the world means everyone, doesn't everyone have the power, through the Holy Spirit, to choose Jesus Christ? |
Bible Answer: When we analyze a set of four verses of Scripture (such as the four you cited), it is always best to get a broader understanding of those verses by looking at the larger context of what is being said. In this case, let us look at John 14-17 to examine exactly what John's (and moreover Christ's) understanding of both what the "world" is and what the Spirit's role is. Does the fact that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin mean that everyone will be enabled to accept Christ? Well, in John 14:17 says that "the world cannot receive [Him], because it does not see Him or know Him., but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you." Therefore, the world is unable to receive the Spirit, so that classifies the "world" in a different category than the disciples, whom Jesus is addressing. It says that the world does not see Him, doesn't even know Him! In John 14:26, we see that the Holy Spirit is the One who will teach the disciples all things. Therefore, the One whom the "world" doesn't even know will teach the disciples. I see no salvific interaction between the Spirit and the world yet. In John 15:18, the "world" will hate the disciples, just as it hates Christ. In the next verse, we see that the disciples are "not of the world," that Christ CHOSE them, and as a result, the world hates them. Therefore, we see reinforced a clear division between the world and the ones who are called by God. In verse 26 we see that the Spirit will testify about Christ with the disciples, but there is no indication that everyone will be free to accept the Spirit's testimony. In fact, Christ has just promised them the opposite from the world. Again in verse 16:13 we see that the Spirit will be the active guide to truth. If the Spirit is here to "try and convert everyone," why does our holy, sovereign God fail in his mission? Perhaps that isn't his mission after all... Verse 17:6 reinforces this: "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word." Again, God GAVE them to Him out of the world. Who is consistently the active agent in bringing people out of the world? ALl througout the Bible, we see it is God who (unaided by our "free will") chooses individuals out of the world and gives them to Christ. Therefore, contrary to your post, the world does NOT include "everyone." Conviction of sin does not lead to ability to repent and choose Christ. It is merely a declaration of guilt and judgment, which is reinforced by passages such as Philippians 1:27-28. Our presence here on earth is not to "win all the lost." It is to proclaim God's truth, to be the Holy Spirit's visible instruments through which He calls the elect, and to be the embodiment of the "sign of destruction" to those who will die and face just punishment. Finally, it is not by man's wisdom that I claim to "understand the intricate workings of GOD." I have the Holy Spirit, as I assume you do; and I can read the Bible, as I am sure you can. The Bible is the source of our revelation, which brings us back to my previous question: is the notion of even a spark of spiritual life to choose to follow Christ a product of man's wisdom which man brings to the words of the Bible; or is it clearly revealed to be a trait that man possesses? If it is the latter, please enlighten us as to the support for it and also explain away passages such as Romans 3, written after Pentecost, which clearly states that man's spiritual condition is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Please demosntrate how anyone dead can do anything to save himself? This debate may be old and tired to you, but it does speak fundamentally to how we view God and how we conduct evangelism. It is highly important, even though it is not a salvific issue, that we get it right. How has God revealed his intentions with regard to salvation? What does the Bible have to say on man's supposed freedom? Take away the assumption that all men are equally aided by the Holy Spirit to receive Christ and see if the entirety of the New Testament supports such a thesis. Thanks for your comments! --Joe! |