Results 1 - 13 of 13
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58346 | ||
I know this was a while back but I'm new to this bulletin and I felt like the one answer I could find to your question wasn't quite sufficient. Jesus did say "not my will but your will be done", but He was CHOOSING to take that path. That was His perfection. He lived His life in PERFECT obedience to the Will of God. If He had not done that by choice, you are right, it would have been meaningless. When Man fell, it was all of us by Adam's choice to not be obedient. When Jesus died, He chose to be obedient, which made Him perfect, and being perfect He was an acceptable sacrifice to pay the price for all sinners. He made His choice to give us, so that we could have a choice. Before His death and resurrection, we were all stuck with Adam's choice. We are predestined to glory now, because we have the choice again. We're right back where Adam was before the Fall. An individual, me, you, we have the choice. Jesus gave that choice back to us with the choice He made. You have to make to your choice now. God told Adam, 'eat the fruit and you shall surely die'. The devil comes along and says, 'you shall not surely die'. Adam ate the fruit, so who did he believe? Now you and I have the same choice, who/what do we believe? John 3:16 tells us the choice (whosoever shall believe in Him), John 3:17 tells us which choice God wants us to make, but the choice is ours. Hope that helps. Melanie |
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2 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58370 | ||
Are you then saying that if Jesus had decided to choose to not die, God's plan for the restoration of his creation would have then failed? I believe that Jesus choice was not a free will decision, it had already been decided what would prevail. Jesus always followed the Fathers commands, and to die was one of those commands. For us to follow Jesus we also must already have this direction, of not my will but yours, implanted within us. This can only be done through the Holy Spirit influencing our wills. Barry |
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3 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58421 | ||
Someone asked earlier where in the Scriptures it says we are given/have free will. That is part of my answer to you. Gen 1:26-27 "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness and let them rule..." We were created like Him. To rule. To rule you make decisions, choices. And He gave it to us to do. God knowing everything, Adam didn't surprise Him. He didn't sit there and say, "Man! All my work and now Adam has messed it all up! I need a plan." He had a plan. Jesus, as part of the Us, knew that plan. God sent Him, but He came of His own free will. Once here though, He was a Man. That was what made the sacrifice--- legitimate. He knew our authority and our weakness as His own. He walked the walk, and showed us how it was to have been done and how to do it. We aren't going to ever walk the perfect walk the way He did, but He showed us how. If He had no right given to Him by His Father to make decisions, what was the temptation? When the devil tempted Him, He was showing us that we should use our free will to choose to be obedient also. He showed us how. He used what He tells us to use: the Word. Temptation/the devil can't stand before the Word. In the garden, He prayed 3 times to have this lifted. He was sore tempted. He didn't want it. He didn't just walk joyfully to it. And you know He had the Holy Spirit there comforting Him. It was even worse for Him than any of us. From the Beginning, before the Beginning, He was God, the Son of the Holy Trinity of Father-Son-and-Holy Ghost; the triune God. Even as a Man, He was fruit of woman; not the seed of man (who just open-eyed walked into disobedience out of choice). So as such as He was, He was NEVER seperated from God, as we are, by sin. And He was God; part of the Trinity. Yet He was about to take on sin. Our sin, but still, sin. And when you are covered in sin, you are severed from God. What Jesus did is the equivalent of God cutting out His own heart! The devil thought when he got Adam to eat that he "would surely die", and really be DEAD DEAD, as in cease to exist. At all. He is a spirit creature. You severe his spirit and he is DEAD DEAD. But Man is spirit and flesh; when we fell, our spirit was severed from the Holy Spirit; again, part of that triune God. But when we were created that Holy Spirit was breathed into us, and that gave our flesh life; and became part of what we are. Spirit and flesh. So when we were severed from God, the Holy Spirit, we had this back up battery called a soul that was inside of us. Part of the spirit. Maintained by our flesh now. But if our flesh dies without that soul having been restored to the Holy Spirit, then our spirit truly dies and Satan gets that death he was after in the first place. Now we know Abraham was credited with righteousness because he believed God, but Jesus came along so that all people would know how it worked. Believe God, your spirit is restored, you don't die when your flesh dies. Jesus didn't just choose to die in the flesh, as the sacrifice for our sins, He chose to die in the spirit. He had to; He died covered in sin. For three days, He was dead. Dead Dead. And you think He wasn't scared? He sweated blood over this. He knew this was the only way, but He was still begging God to check just one more time, three more times, to see if there wasn't another way! So yes, I am saying Jesus had a choice. But I'm also saying that God knows everything. We don't know what choices we'll make, but He does. Just as He gives us the choice, He gave Jesus the choice. And He was in it. Not above it, not beyond it; in it. He knew what choice He wanted to make. He wanted to be obedient to God. He was determined to be obedient to God. But He had a choice. Read your Scriptures. Didn't He straight up ask Peter, don't you think I could call the angels? I could, means He chose not to use power and authority He knew He had. He could...but He chose not to. We can ignore the Holy Spirit when it is speaking to us. It is a Helper, as defined by Jesus Himself, but we're the boss. That's why we die. Unless we give ourselves to Jesus, making Him the boss. You call it "direction" implanted within us, the Bible says it is knowledge planted on/in our hearts. That's why if we choose not to believe, not to be obedient, it's on our own heads. The knowledge of the way back is there. Read your last sentence. The Holy Spirit/God influences us. If it was just about making us do what He wants us to do, He could have stopped this whole mess with Adam. He influences, persuades, convinces, convicts--but He doesn't force. That's what makes Him so particularly awesome, beautiful and wonderful. He is all powerful, but He gave us free will, and He sticks by that; He doesn't take it back. Which must break His heart since it means He's going to lose some of us when He loves all of us. |
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4 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58585 | ||
When God formed Adam from the dust of the ground, Adam had no input into whether he was to be formed or not. This was God’s choice entirely. Adam had no free will input into the decision. When Adam was placed into the Garden, this also was God’s choice and Adam had no participation into this decision either. Adam’s sojourn in the Garden was going along splendidly it wasn’t until Eve was made from the bone and flesh of Adam that the wheels began to fall off. Eve decided, through free will thought, that God’s command was something that didn’t need to be heeded to, and so instead she obeyed the promptings of the Serpent. Again this was not a free will decision the actual thoughts for the disobedience came from the Serpent. This was the first step towards being expelled from God’s presence. The second, and final step was Adam also being coerced into using his free willed thinking to obey the woman and disobey God. The scriptures encourage us to be servants or slaves to God and his commands. Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. A servant does not use his own willed thoughts to serve, but does the bidding of him whom he serves. We are not only encouraged to be a servant to God but also to one another. This would seem to persuade against using free will to serve. Eve’s disobedience, in the Garden, was not a free will attempt at using her own mind to sum things up. It was a rebellious act of disobeying God, and allowing the promptings of the Devil (Serpent) to rule in her mind. She had shaken off the servitude to God and his righteousness, and instead chosen to become a servant to Satan. Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? There is only two powers at war in this our world. One is God the other is Satan. Man has no free willed power to shape anything in this world, for him or for others; all influence comes from one or the other of these powers Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. It would appear that so-called free will thinking is another word for rebellion against God and his word. The choice of obeying the Serpent and so disobeying God brings eternal death to those who profess the right. Our freedom in Christ is being a servant, and a servant obeys without choice. 1 Corinthians 7:22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. Barry |
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5 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58633 | ||
We were created to rule the earth and everything in/on it. How do you rule without free will? God said it. You rule it, you name it. My Bible tells me Woman wasn't created when God gave the instructions about the fruit. So who changed God's Word and set her up to be successfully tricked into the sin of EATING it by telling her she was forbidden to eat it or touch it? Who named Woman and was the Head in their pairing? And as such stood as her spiritual leader, authority and protector? And where was he when the devil was leading her down the garden path? Genesis 3:6 says he was with her, so why didn't he open his mouth? Why is he just sitting there letting this snake get away with this? He had an obligation and responsibility to her that came with being the one to name her as well as the fact that she was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. Sounds to me like somebody used somebody as a poison-taster. When asked what she had done, Woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." I did it, but I was tricked. We'll just skip the fact that her Man stood right there and watched the whole thing, and I'll ask instead, what would have happened if Man had grabbed her arm and drug her butt off to God and said, "He tricked her! She had bad information and that snake tricked her! Once she touched it and nothing happened she figured the whole thing was bogus and she ate it! Yes, she thought she was being disobedient when she touched it, but she doesn't have the authority to make those kinds of decisions anyway. You gave that to me! I rule here!" But we'll never know. He didn't do that, did he? He ate the fruit. Nobody twisted his arm. Nobody talked him into it. Nobody told him to do it. She gave it to him and he ate it. When God confronted him, he said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the the tree, and I ate it." I did it, but she gave it to me, and you gave her to me. So he wasn't just blaming Woman, he was blaming God too. It wasn't his fault. He was arguing he didn't have any responsibility or free will either. Somethings never change. And you argue that poor old helpless mindless no-will of his own Man was punished by God because he listened to Woman instead of God. Somethings really never do change. There you go adding stuff to the Word of God, too. My Bible says that he was punished because he listened to Woman. Period. He's the head remember? She's supposed to listen to him, not vice versa. I could be wrong there, but it makes more sense when you consider her punishment. She's going to give him babies and its going to hurt worse than anything she could ever imagine, so bad in fact that we don't really remember how bad it was until we start having the next one and so bad that it hurts the Man just watching it, yet her desire for him is going to keep her coming back for it again and again. Says pretty much without any doubt, 'Now are we clear who is RULER in this little pas de deux?' I've always thought someone who is deceived or tricked is by definition a dupe. Not too bright. But you think poor old mindless no will Man was doing just fine until the big bad too smart and strong for him Woman caused his wheels to start falling off. But God didn't say that either, did he? He said, "Cursed is the ground because of you." But that's just how a woman reads those verses. |
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6 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58645 | ||
There is no point carrying on with this discussion as it is very apparent that your feminest leanings will cancell out any meaningful discussion | ||||||
7 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58680 | ||
lol I'm a stay at home mom with 5 children, 2 who are grown and have 2 grandchildren. We are active in our tiny little church and live on a horse farm. Our joy is in the Lord and He never disappoints. We are strong in Him and the power of His might even through our trials. My husband, kids, and church family are going to be as amused as I am to learn that anyone considers me a feminist! Especially as in my women's Sunday School class and the youth groups where I counsel submission to the Lord and women to their husbands and fathers and it always brings on lovely lively debates and discussions. But if you aren't up to the debate I perfectly understand. Ah well. I was actually hopeful for a time of having a lively learning debate here on this forum. Why is it that so many here only see this forum as a venue insult or condemn or just have their view points reaffirmed? Ah well. God bless. |
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8 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58748 | ||
If I was wrong I apoligise. However, by the tone of your last note it certainly appeared to be gender slanted rather than holisticly human. The whole free will debate revolves around man being an independant participater in the fight between good and evil. This is not true, either we do what God wants of us or we die being a servant to Satanic law. Jesus when he was tempted by the Devil had no choice to make. Because he was from God he was naturally going to do what God wanted of him. If he did decide to make a choice it would have been to go along with the Devils' temptations. However because he didn't give in to temptation, because he was following God, there was no choice to make. If however he decided by using his own mind, rather than God's scriptures in his word, to succumb to the temptation, then he would have been sinning. Which concludes that free will thinking is sinful because it goes against God's will. |
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9 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | Morant61 | 58757 | ||
Greetings Bartay! I have heard many definitions of free will, but this one is new to me! :-) My understanding of free will has always been fairly simple. Obviously, there are many things in life that one cannot choose. One cannot choose when one is born, or where! One cannot choose many of the circumstances which occur during ones life - if I could, I would have scripted my life much differently! :-) However, free will does not mean that one is all-powerful. It simply means that circumstances alone, nor God, compels me to do something against my will. Thus, man can choose to obey God or disobey God. However, man cannot escape the consequences of those choices. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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10 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58873 | ||
Hi Tim, One cannot choose to obey God, because not obeying means you have freely chosen not to. Perhaps if we see life as something God has created for each person. To see God in charge of each and every situation takes away any responsibility for us to think about. So one doesn't have to free willingly obey God, one only has to follow God, for to not follow God leads to eternal death. If however we decide through free will thinking to not follow God then we sin, and the wages of sin is death. Perhaps we all see God and his word as a joke that will not come to fruition, I am sure the two in the Garden believed that after the Serpent had said, "you will not die." Their deaths were not immediate but were certainly imminent in the future scheme of things. Jesus never done or said anything that did not come from his Heavenly Father first. He was constantly in touch through prayer and belief that all that God had set out to do in his plan for salvation would come to pass. Bartay |
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11 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | coffee | 58877 | ||
Dear Bartay, Please do not misunderstand me for I am not trying to attack you - You have contradicted yourself in your first sentence. Maybe you see 'follow' and 'free will' as two different things. Do you understand that Jesus had a choice? Do you understand that Jesus chose to obey His FATHER? To follow, to obey is to choose to do so. If you choose to follow you are following the will of GOD. If you choose not to you are following your own will. It seems to me you have agreed with Tim but just use a different language. Ah I just read a previous post and it would seem that you believe Jesus didn't have a choice. Do you not have a choice with your own earthly Father? Do you think your Father loves you more than GOD? Dear Bartay it is a choice and GOD already knows the choice you will make. HE knows and loves you to your very core. As Melanie here in the forum put it, HE is not after you with a baseball bat (or something like that), it is only us humans that do that. May HE bless you always Bartay, luv deb |
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12 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58879 | ||
Hi deb If my Father said to me, I have set up a lifestyle here for you and you will be lacking in nothing. You will have peace happiness and a wonderful life. There is one thing however that I don't want you to do, do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good or evil. If you however choose to do so you will be banished from this heavenly place and you will die. Now I had no choice in what my Father had set up for me. I didn't have to say I will obey everything you have asked of me. However, if I wanted to sin and disobey my Father I would have to choose to ignore everything he had done to give me a good life and decide to eat from the tree of good and evil. The free willed choice is sin. Barry |
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13 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | coffee | 58880 | ||
Dear Barry, I am not going to deny what you say here - you are simply saying it in a different way and that's fine with me. In Jesus, deb |
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