Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Jesus' name baptism? | Acts 2:38 | Reformer Joe | 38637 | ||
Andrew: You wrote: "The reason that Jesus says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost is because, He had not been resurrected yet. After his resurrection, all power on earth and in heaven was given unto him and now man can only be saved through him." Your timeline is a little off. Jesus commanded his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit AFTER his resurrection, not before (Matthew 28:19-20). I also note that you said that NOW man can only be saved through Jesus Christ? How has anyone else ever been saved save for His redemptive, once-for-all atonement for sin on the Cross? --Joe! |
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2 | Apostles Spirit-led? | Acts 2:38 | charis | 38731 | ||
Dear Joe! Greetings in the name of Jesus! While I agree with the things you wrote in reply to Andrew, you did not address the original question at all. 'Apparently the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus. Was this a revelation from the Holy Spirit after Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?' Were the actions of the apostles mistakes? Were they 'abbreviating' the 'formula?' Or, just maybe, the Holy Spirit led them to baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ? It DOES seem that the Spirit led Paul to write: "Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father." Colossians 3:17 NASB It also seems that the leaders of the Jews were aware that this name was dangerous to their religious tradition: "And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus." Act 4:18 NASB. Please note that I am not denouncing the Trinitarian method, nor denying the command of the Lord in Matthew 28. I am not 'Jesus-only' or 'Oneness.' I am simply stating that baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ is Biblical and valid. Sadly, mere humans seem to have a penchant for going a step or two (or more!) further than the leading of the Spirit of God. This applies equally to the 'Jesus-ONLY' camp and the 'Trinitarian Formula-ONLY' camp. The zeal of both of these camps leads them beyond the simplicity of Scriptural teaching, IMHO. Peace to you in Christ Jesus, charis |
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3 | Apostles Spirit-led? | Acts 2:38 | Reformer Joe | 38760 | ||
Charis: I hold that mentioning Jesus specifically in passages like Acts 2:38 is by way of emphasis, not abbreviation. The problem that I have with the "Jesus-only" baptism folks, besides ignoring the crystal-clear instructions of Jesus Christ (and it cannot be undoubtedly demonstrated that the apostles went against this directive), is the fact that it is indeed the Oneness folks who hold so strongly to the idea that Jesus IS the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Since we have no clear indication that any baptisms in Acts were in the name of Jesus ONLY, I think it is wisest to adhere to what is most clear. --Joe! |
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4 | Apostles Spirit-led? | Acts 2:38 | charis | 38763 | ||
Dear Joe! Greetings in the name of Jesus! :-) Friend, you know that I hold you in high regard, so please do not be offended if I say that this is one of the weakest arguments I have ever heard you make. To relegate the Book of the Acts of the Apostles to 'unclear' status is unlike you! I heartily agree that the 'Oneness' folks are off-base concerning the Triune nature of God, but I am compelled to follow the (IMHO) clear example for baptism set forth by the apostles in the post-ascension early church. I can only pray that my Lord and Savior will be gracious if I am mistaken, and hope that this same grace applies to others if I am found faithful. Peace and joy in Christ Jesus, charis |
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5 | Apostles Spirit-led? | Acts 2:38 | Reformer Joe | 38766 | ||
Randy, I didn't say that the entire book of Acts is unclear. What I said was there is not a specific instance where it is undeniably declared that baptism was done in Jesus' name ONLY. There is, however, a crystal-clear command from God the Son to baptize in the name of the Trinity. That is why I lean against the Jesus-name ONLY baptism as being the biblical norm. Just out of curiosity, how do you think that the Apostles got from the Trinitarian formula right before the Ascension to the supposed "Jesus-only" formula on the Day of Pentecost. I think we can rule our disagreement among the Godhead and God changing His mind, so how do you account for it? --Joe! |
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6 | Apostles Spirit-led? | Acts 2:38 | charis | 38794 | ||
Dear Joe! Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus! In my opinion, Acts 2:38, 8:12-16, 10:48, and 19:5 are pretty clear. I would agree that Romans 6:3, "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?", is somewhat ambiguous. By the way, I do not believe the phrase 'Jesus-ONLY' is applicable to my interpretation. It implies that I agree with the 'Oneness' or 'Modalism' folks, and you are well aware that this is not the case. To satisfy your curiosity (:-)), I will put forth my conjecture on how the apostles arrived at this utterance of faith. (I don't like the word 'formula') The Great Commision commanded at the end of Matthew 28 takes place at Galilee (vs 16), while the acension took place at (or toward) Bethany (Luke 24:50). Jesus spoke to the apostles for forty days concerning the kingdom of God (Acts 1:3), finally commanding them to remain in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit, then ascended unto the Father. It may be that the Lord spoke to the apostles of the authority and efficacy of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ between Galilee and Bethany. Certainly, the apostles did find a new authority in His name! 'But Peter said, "I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene--walk!"' Acts 3:6 NASB. "And on the basis of faith in His name, it is the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16 NASB. "men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 15:26 NASB. "This became known to all, both Jews and Greeks, who lived in Ephesus; and fear fell upon them all and the name of the Lord Jesus was being magnified." Acts 19:17 NASB. "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:11 NASB. "always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;" Ephesians 5:20 NASB. "so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth," Philippians 2:10 NASB. "Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father." Colossians 3:17 NASB. "so that the name of our Lord Jesus will be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thessalonians 1:12 NASB. My friend, I completely agree with you that there is no disagreement between Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Holy Spirit led the apostles to FULFILL the command of the Lord, in the name of Jesus! Otherwise we must conclude that exactly one (1!) 'crystal-clear' Scripture, Matthew 28:19, invalidates all of the above 'not-so-clear' (?) Scriptures. Joe!, you have said time and again that we must let Scripture interpret Scripture... This is what I am attempting to do! I love you, brother! Blessings in Christ Jesus, charis |
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7 | Apostles Spirit-led? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 38850 | ||
Greetings Charis! It has been awhile since we have chatted my far away brother and friend! :-) If I may intrude, you said: "My friend, I completely agree with you that there is no disagreement between Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Holy Spirit led the apostles to FULFILL the command of the Lord, in the name of Jesus! Otherwise we must conclude that exactly one (1!) 'crystal-clear' Scripture, Matthew 28:19, invalidates all of the above 'not-so-clear' (?) Scriptures. Joe!, you have said time and again that we must let Scripture interpret Scripture... This is what I am attempting to do!" I think the point that Joe is making is that we may be misunderstanding those 'no-so-clear' Scriptures. The clear Scriptures must guide our interpretation of the less clear. For instance, in another post, I noted that there are several possible ways of looking at these 'no-so-clear' Scriptures: ************************************************* "The narrative data of Acts can be interpreted several possible ways. 1) The phrase "in the name of Jesus" could be a shortened form of the longer phrase, with the longer phrase being assumed in light of Mt. 28:19. 2) The phrase "in the name of Jesus" may not have been used in the actual baptism at all, but could have referred to being baptized by the authority of Jesus. 3) The disciples may have felt that Mt. 28:19 was not meant to be a strict formula and the phrase "in the name of Jesus" was sufficent. Any of these options is possible! This is why Reformer Joe said in one of his posts that the accounts of Acts are simply not clear, while Mt. 28:19 is very clear. It is the only verse in the entire Bible which deals with how baptism should be done. The rest are descriptions, thus may not include every detail." ************************************************* My personal view is that either is fine, especially in light of the doctrine of the Trinity! :-) But, I usually practice the Mt. 28:19 pattern simply because it is a clearer statement as opposed to a narrative, and fulfills the Jesus name aspect as well. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Apostles Spirit-led? | Acts 2:38 | charis | 38921 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings in the name of Jesus! Brother, your commentary is NEVER and intrusion! Let me begin by stating to you and Joe!, and of course all the forum saints, that my convictions regarding water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ are NOT to the exclusion of water baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. I, too, consider both 'utterances of faith' (or 'phrases' or even 'formulae') to be equally effective. In fact, as Hank expressed so well, the words of the 'baptizer' ('baptist'?) are not nearly as important as the heart of the recipient of God's cleansing work! So please do not misunderstand my position as one of 'my way is right, all other ways are wrong.' I simply write my own convictions on this matter. :-) Now, your points about the 'not-so-clear' Scriptures: 1) I have a hard time swallowing the 'abbreviation' theory. The Word of God is that by which we know God, and this explanation implies a somewhat 'sloppy' revelation of His divine will. There are at least four places describing the baptism of believers, and though not narratives, they are quite descriptive. In addition, there are other places that the name of Jesus is invoked, and they ARE narratives. It would be difficult to imagine Peter's command to be healed 'in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit' with '...the Nazarene' tacked on. I believe that the baptismal descriptions and the other Scriptures expressing the authority of the name of the Lord Jesus must be taken together. In most of those 'non-baptism' Scriptures, replacing the 'abbreviated' phrase with the 'full' phrase does not make sense. 2) While this is possible, the same things I wrote in 1) apply. 3) This is the closest to my thinking. I would even say that the name of Jesus is not only 'sufficient,' but fully valid. Certainly, the apostles used the name of the Lord Jesus to full effect in other areas of ministry, so why not baptism? To answer my own question, I see that this is a matter of tradition to some, with some good measure of emotions involved. Many of these emotions seem to be directed to countering the doctrines of the 'Oneness' folk. Well, gotta get to the building site. We're almost done! Praise God! Blessings and peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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