Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Hank | 61100 | ||
John, how can man be free to choose Christ but not have the ability to do so? It would seem to me that in the absence of ability to do or not to do any given thing, freedom to do it really doesn't exist and is a moot issue. Your rationale and reasoning processes fail to convince. --Hank | ||||||
2 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | John Reformed | 61134 | ||
Dear Hank, How can a person choose anything other than what he desires the most? If my text proofs have not convinced you of fallen man's inability to choose spiritual good, then my reasoning certainly won't. But to prove it is not flawed let me try once more to explain it. Man is dead to spiritual truth and his darkened heart can neither accept it or understand it. Therefore the desires of his heart are toward earthly things. His nature is to hate and rebel against Christ. He would do anything rather than surreder to God. God will not force him against his will to believe. God then sends a messenger of the gospel to this man. His reaction is that the gospel is foolishness and he can't figure out what these screwball christians are talking about anyway! He has been presented with a choice and being what he is...he says "GET LOST"! God will not force him against his will to believe. Should we just give up hope for this man? No! Not so long as he has breath in his body. Who knows but that God may grant him repentance. Let's now suppose that say... one year later another messenger arrives with the gospel. The look of sceptisism disappears and one of interest begins to appear upon his face. Before the evangelist even finishes the man is asking "what must I do to be saved". Outwardly our friend has not changed one bit over the past year, but inwardly a miraculous work of God has occured. God has given him a new heart with new desires. Now the man freely and joyfully uses his will to embrace Christ. We are not given to know the identities of God's elect. That is why none should be considered beyond hope and destined to damnation. That is also why calvinism does not quench evangelism. If salvation is of God, there is always hope even for the chief of sinners. Your Brother, John |
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3 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Makarios | 61142 | ||
Dear John, Anyone who has spent any time at all on this Forum knows that you are a 5 point Calvinist. In fact, you very well know that there are a few self proclaimed "5 point Calvinists" here, including you, but most have come and gone. I do not say the above as a 'deriding' or negative comment regarding your beliefs. I only point it out because the stance that you take as a "5 point Calvinist" is one that is shared by very few on this Forum. And because of that, you naturally find the necessity to protect and substantiate your point of view at every single occurrence, regardless of what others think, or regardless of how redundant you may sound to others. Such stubborn determination would be very admirable if it were in regards to simply championing the faith of Jesus Christ! But you are 'championing' a little more than just the simple faith itself, and you find it necessary to continue this determination to protect the particular definition of salvation that "works" or "makes the most sense" to you personally. That is also admirable, to an extent. So much so is your determination that it "rules" and "colors" the content of almost all of your posts, and a person could hardly read a post written by "Reformer John" without knowing just exactly where you stand on the issue of election/eternal security. You obviously feel "challenged" in regards to the particular view of salvation in which you believe. I doubt that there a constant need for you to continually "point out" the fact that you are a 5 point Calvinist. The necessity for you to continue to "evangelize" the fact that you believe that man has absolutely no say-so in the salvation process simply does not exist. We all know this very well, and this continued redundancy loses its meaning and is thus "a chasing after the wind", when we compare the importance of the message of Calvin and the message of the Gospel. There is no comparison in regards to the importance of spreading the message of the Gospel! I hope that you would agree that this should be our #1 priority. And spreading the message of Calvin would, and I hope that you would agree, be a very distant second in regards to the importance of the Gospel, my friend! We would much appreciate it if you would not feel so "defensive" and outnumbered in your stance so that we could hear about the many other things about the Bible that you, no doubt, have a particular view on- views that would not depend so much upon your particular view of predestination. I hope that you would agree that predestination is not the "end" of all Scriptural knowledge, and that there is much to learn about God that is far beyond the limits of predestination. In conclusion, please let us all set this discussion of Calvinism/predestination aside so that we can enjoy our time speaking of other things and add more variety to the topics that are discussed here. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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4 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Hank | 61154 | ||
Makarios: Well and wisely said! I should think it in the best interests of this forum if John Reformed took counsel from your posts, and not him only, but all the rest of us as well. It is easy enough, and most tempting, for any one of us to mount his own favorite hobby horse and ride it to the dismay and utter boredom of other users. It is quite adequate to state one's position on a given issue or point of doctrine and even to defend it if one feels it merits defense. But it is quite impolite and inconsiderate, and frankly crude and rude, to persist on and on at it, making a career as it were out of harping on one doctrine, one point of view, one side of an issue until other users are sorely irritated, bored to tears, or throw up their hands in frustration and quit the forum. We all of us should exercise compassion and consideration for our fellow users, tempering our use of the forum with a measure of common sense, which may not be so common after all! It is in poor taste and inconsiderate of others to dominate the forum with post after post that address and promote the same denominational or doctrinal bias. How many times does one need to state his position on a given issue? When someone in a building yells "Fire" he generally gets a fair amount of attention from it. But if he yells "Fire" a dozen times a day, day in and day out, he tends to lose both his intended effect and his credibility rather rapidly. Again, Makarios, my commendation and thanks to you for a very excellent post. --Hank | ||||||
5 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Makarios | 61159 | ||
You are very welcome, my friend! :-) I know that you, for one, have shown respect to all, regardless of which Christian 'minority' group people classify themselves in! And some minorities are much more "vocal" than others.. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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6 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Hank | 61166 | ||
Makarios, to follow up your note and comment with a thought that comes to my mind, I'd append that one of the major reasons I'm so fond of the writings of C. S. Lewis and never seem to tire of reading him is this: C. S. Lewis didn't sit hard on any particular denominational seat, although he freely admitted to being a member of the Anglican faith. That he avoided becoming enmeshed in denominaional debate and broil, but was instead a powerful apologist for what he called "mere Christianity" accounts, in good measure, for his being accepted and respected by a broad spectrum of communions within Christendom. ..... There was a time following the formation of this forum -- as you, kalos, EdB, charis, prayon and other forum pioneers may recall -- when Lockman published as one of its prohibitions the introduction of purely denominational bias into posts entered on the forum. Eventually they relaxed this rule somewhat, but I have never thought it an especialy wise move. It is not only possible to engage in interactive Bible study on a medium such as this without having it sidetracked and diluted by endless inter-denominational debate and squabble, but it is highly desirable. This is not to say that doctrinal issues must be avoided at all costs. The Bible is doctrinal from beginning to end, i.e., the Bible is filled to the brim with didactics, doctrine, teaching -- they all are of essentially equal meaning. Being revelatory of the nature and will of God that He chose to make known to mankind, the Bible is a doctrinal or teaching book, but it is not a denominational manual, creed, confession or book of order. There are vast numbers of things that the Bible clearly teaches about which a majority of Christians are in general agreement, and as it happens, these things are by and large the things that we Christians hold dearest and view as being the truly vital points of our Christian faith. Yet the human appetite for strife and division among men is reflected on this forum no less vigorously than it is among nations of the world who subscribe to differing points of view and conflicting ideologies. Verbal arrows and those made of flint are both capable of inflicting harm. .... A denominational bias (or coloring or perspective) on various topics should not, I believe, be totally taboo on this forum. I think it fitting and proper that the points of Calvinism, for example, be enumerated and referenced, where applicable, by Scripture. The same treatment should be afforded Arminianism. The points for the doctrine and against the doctrine of the eternal security of the believer (perseverance of the saints) could be given and referenced by appropriate Scripture. And for water baptism, etc. But this should not be considered an open invitation to enter into an endless and fruitless debate among ourselves over any of these topics -- with its inevitable fall-out of ill will, discourtesy and name-calling, and hurt feelings. This type of behavior does not constitute proper Bible study and does not benefit anyone very much. The kind of study Bible or commentary that I like best, and perhaps you do too, is the work that maintains a balanced view of issues. When a biblical passage has two or more widely accepted interpretations, it will list all of them and explain the rationale behind each one. I like that. It gives me an opportunity to observe, interpret and decide which view seems to be more nearly the right one. But a study Bible or commentary worth its salt doesn't ramble on for 40 pages trying to shove a denominational bias down its readers' throats. I wouldn't give a nickel for that kind of rubbish. ..... Now, since Lockman advertises this forum as a study Bible vehicle, why should we permit or engage in the kind of "study notes that we would deplore in a printed study Bible or commentary. I've seen -- and so have you if you have been active on this forum for very long -- debates rage between two users about a subject on which neither agreed and about which neither knew very much to begin with. Would you put down your money for that kind of "study Bible?" No? Well, neither would I. --Hank | ||||||
7 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Mommapbs | 61295 | ||
Greetings Hank! Excellent remarks! I can always learn something when I read your posts! I am not responding to the note currently up so that others have a change to read it, but here is my reply: An old cliche fits for you dear brother "Wise men still seek Him!" Thank you for your insights and challenges to us! And thank you for bearing with us, especially those of us who are weak and need encouragement - Blessings, Mommapbs PS: I am so thankful for this Forum, it is my opportunity to grow and share with others what I have experienced in my walk with the Lord. The denominational stuff, is just that, "stuff." It fills but has no real substance! |
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