Results 1 - 12 of 12
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | John Reformed | 60714 | ||
Emmaus, If you wish to say that the atonement was insufficient to save, but that works of men were needed to to complete the work of Christ, I can't stop you. But, you are dangrously wrong! We are saved by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone. In other words: True saving faith will always be accompanied by good works, Just as a good tree produces good fruit. Keep in mind however that true good works are those that God has prepared fo us to do, and are not neccesarily what we consider to be good works. Eph 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." Hope this helps! John |
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2 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60723 | ||
John, "If you wish to say that the atonement was insufficient to save, but that works of men were needed to to complete the work of Christ, I can't stop you." I said no such thing. Please do not put words into my mouth. It is bad enough that you put the word "alone" into Paul's mouth next to faith when it was never there. Check your concordance and Greek lexicon. Paul knew the word for alone and used it, put not ever with faith. If he wanted to say "faith alone" he could have and would have and the Holy Spirit would have inspired him to do so. But he did not! Taking the obedience out of faith leaves an empty shell, a body without a spirit, which is dead as James said. If you are upset that Paul never said "faith alone" take it up with Paul and the Holy Spirit. Emmaus |
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3 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | John Reformed | 60732 | ||
Emmaus, Eph 2:8,9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Paul tells us: 1. We are saved because of God's grace. 2. That the means of salvation was His gift of faith to spiritually dead people who themselves could do nothing. 3.That it certainly had nothing to do with works because He does'nt want anyone to brag about what a great worker they are and how they contributed to their own salvation by praying and giving and kneeling and self flagellation etc. What other requirement does Paul add to Faith for the attainment of salvation? Or is it "faith" alone that is mentioned? Remember now...you can't say works because Paul says they don't count. And please don't go to James for I covered that in my prior post. John |
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4 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60737 | ||
John, Paul adds nothing to faith, neither does he gut it of obedience. The "obedience of faith" is not a "work of law" but a work of God's grace in us his adopted sons and daughters in Christ. You seem to fear grace working in man so much, as if grace working in the flesh diminishes God rather than glorifies Him, but that is the point and result of the Incarnation, death and Resurrection, that we share in His divine life. 2 Peter 1:4. God is glorified in lifting us up, not diminished. Calvin was so worrried about God's glory. As if God has anything to worry about or needed Calvin to protect his dignity. Give God a break! Emmaus |
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5 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | John Reformed | 60740 | ||
Emmaus, "Paul adds nothing to faith,..." (therefore faith alone is established as scriptural)Halleluia! "neither does he gut it of obedience". So giving Christ all the glory for our salvation is gutting faith? Poor mankind gets none of the credit? I say to God be the glory! What I want is to hear "well done my good and faithful servant". That from the lips of my Savior and King is all the glory I long for. Dear Emmaus I assure you that I am a firm advocate of good works. They are evidence to me that God is working in and through me. If I did not experience the priviledge of serving Him, I would have reason to question my own election. You have me as well as Calvin all wrong! "Calvin was so worrried about God's glory. As if God has anything to worry about or needed Calvin to protect his dignity. Give God a break!" Ps 115:1 Not to us, O LORD, not to us, But to Your name give glory Because of Your lovingkindness, because of Your truth Acts 12:23 And immediately an angel of the Lord struck him because he did not give God the glory, and he was eaten by worms and died. (Wow! that one should make a person stop and think.) Rev 19:7 "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready." I think the point has been made. John |
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6 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60768 | ||
John, The "obedience of faith" is an instinsic part of faith, not separate from faith and is a completely different think from "works of the law." It is the differnce between the actions of a gracefilled child of God and a slave fearful of His wrath, as Paul himself points out in Romans. The Calvinist position creates an artifical and non existent (until the Reformation)disagreement between James and Paul who are both talking about the same saving faith, as anyone can see when they notice that both are using Abraham's faith as an example. We may as well consider our points made for the sake of the rest of the forum if for no other reason. Emmaus |
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7 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | John Reformed | 60780 | ||
Dear Emmaus, You wrote: The "obedience of faith" is an instinsic (intrinsic I think you meant to say) part of faith, not separate from faith and is a completely different think from "works of the law." By this I take you to mean that obedience goes "hand in glove" with faith. Therefore when one recieves the gift of faith (which is by God's grace alone) he most naturally (for he now has a NEW nature) obeys the command of the gospel to place his faith in Christ. But that obeying the gospel is somehow different than obeying the law. Am I correct in my assesment of your understanding of "obedience of faith"? (This is not a trick question but an honest attempt to reconcile our different perspectives to God's Word) John |
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8 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60781 | ||
John, Yes. Only because of grace does a man become "a partaker of His divine nature" and able to act in any way pleasing to God, which is to say as His adopted child. Whereas on the contrary, "works of the law" are works of man and carnal nature not of grace. The obedience of faith is a filial obedience of a child of God, whereas "works of the law" are the servile obedience of a slave. Emmaus |
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9 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | John Reformed | 60782 | ||
Emmaus, I think that "works of the law" can be carnal on one hand but spiritual on the other. For instance Jesus said in Mark 7:6 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, (Honoring God is spiritual) BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME (without love it is carnal) I believe that this is the reason why, Luther especialy, was so adamant about our being saved on the sole basis of a faith that is given (to those that God chose) as a gift. His passion was to give God all the glory. From predestination, to calling, to regeneration, conversion, justification, adoption, sanctification and glorification. All accomplished by God alone. We did nothing to earn salvation and we can add nothing to Christ's "cross work". As it is writtten, "Salvation is of the Lord." May I suggest we narrow the focus of our discussion to a single issue have more of a give and take as in a discussion? Your thoughts? John |
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10 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60821 | ||
John , I would agree that we can do nothing to earn our initial justification and can add nothing to His "cross work." But with his grace we can enter into his work with Him. Jesus did call us to take up our crosses and follow Him: "he who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me," (Matt 10:38) and "If any man would come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me.." (Matt 16:24). We can work with Him as His co-workers: "In every thing God (sunergei eis agathon))WORKS FOR GOOD WITH those who love Him and are called according to his purpose. (Rom 8:28) and "WORKING TOGETHER WITH (sunergountes)Him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain" (2 Cor 6:1)And this is the kind of work, the work of God, which we can participate in after our unmerited justification, that Paul had no trouble "boasting" about, (Rom 5:3;5:11;5:11). What single issue did you have in mind? Emmaus |
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11 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | John Reformed | 61298 | ||
Dear Emmaus, I totally lost track of your post. Forgive me. What I was driving at is that perhaps we should stik to human ability as it relates to spiritual things and the "natural" man. Focusing out attention on 1 cor 2:14. I am all for going to any other verse in the Bible as long as it sheds light on our question. Fair enough? Thank you Emmaus, John |
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12 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 61328 | ||
John, I think this subject has been worked over enough. I am going to let it and you rest. I just think that the position you hold in many ways attempts to put back up the veil of the temple that was torn open at Jesus' death. God's sovereignty is not in doubt just because He has drawn near and made us partakers of His divine nature. On the free will issue, I believe that even if man is "dead in his trespasses," God's prevenient grace can eleveate man's crippled will to the place where he is able to make a free choice and either "resist the Holy Spirit" as Stephen accused the Sanhedrin in Acts, or surrender to the Holy Spirit and His grace. It still comes under God's grace if that is the way God wants to exrcise His perogatives. I think that is a reasonable way to reconcile the "free will" verses cited by so many with the other verses you choose to emphasize. I know where you are coimg from, I just think you you are trying to put God into too small a box, although I am sure you do not see it that way. Peace, Emmaus |
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