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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | John Reformed | 64697 | ||
Dear FTima, Thank you for the providing your arguement based on interpretation of the texts. It alone is the ultimate authority. You concluded: "We have all people made up of Jews and Gentiles. The word of God was given to the Jews, God's chosen people, but they rejected it. It was then given to the Gentiles." It is important to keep in mind that Israel was God's chosen people but they were not all chosen unto salvation: Rom 9:13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." Both boys were "sons" of Abraham but one was preferred over the other. Why? Rom 9:11 "for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice (KJV: election) would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,". You quoted Matt 10:6 "but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". The lost sheep! The jews did not understand the words of Jesus. In fact He preached to them in parables knowing they would not understand! Mark 4:12 "so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN." You asked: "Doesn't this then include all people?" The gospel is to be proclaimed universally, but only those whom God quickens will understand. Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. It is by God's grace we are given spiritual life (a heart of flesh) so that we might believe. John |
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2 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64779 | ||
Here is my second installment. I quoted Matt 10:6 "but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". You added, "The lost sheep! The jews did not understand the words of Jesus. In fact He preached to them in parables knowing they would not understand! Mark 4:12 "so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."" I am not sure what you mean by adding "The lost sheep!" but once again, context is key. Mark 4:10 As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. Mark 4:11 And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN." Jesus was speaking to "His followers, along with the twelve", but prior to this the writer says "as He was alone". From this I get that at most it may have been a small group of individuals. Anyway, Jesus continues, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables." To those who were closest to Jesus, at that time, he reveals the mystery of the kingdom of God, but to those who are outside get everything in parables." Who are these that are outside? Outside of this small group? outside of the kingdom of God? outside of what? 1 Corinthians, using the same phrase "who are outside", gives us some indication. 1 Cor 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. Here we have "those who are within the church" (the kingdom of God) and "those who are outside" (the wicked man). Could we not conclude then that "those who are outside" are those who have not obeyed God, whether the Jews in Mark's account, or both Jew and Greek, in Paul's account? I asked in my previous post "Doesn't this then include all people?" You state, "The gospel is to be proclaimed universally, but only those whom God quickens will understand. Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. It is by God's grace we are given spiritual life (a heart of flesh) so that we might believe." "Spiritual life" and "(a heart of flesh)" cannot be taken to mean the same thing here. Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. I quote Paul, again writing to the Roman Christians, Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. It is by God's grace we have opportunity for salvation through Jesus Christ. This "gospel" is the power of God for salvation TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES (not just an elect, chosen, predestined, foreordained, etc.) group of people. |
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3 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | John Reformed | 64797 | ||
I think you are being too literal here where you state: ""Spiritual life" and "(a heart of flesh)" cannot be taken to mean the same thing here. Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit." Keep in mind that God replaces with a heart of flesh a heart of stone. Ezek 11:19 "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh," My reading of the verse is that "heart of stone" represents spiritual death and the "heart of flesh" spiritual life. You asked: "Could we not conclude then that "those who are outside" are those who have not obeyed God, whether the Jews in Mark's account, or both Jew and Greek, in Paul's account?" All who are outside of Christ are wicked and disobediant. (Rom 1) Your conclusion based on Rom 1:16 was: "It is by God's grace we have opportunity for salvation through Jesus Christ. This "gospel" is the power of God for salvation TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES (not just an elect, chosen, predestined, foreordained, etc.) group of people." One must have faith in order to believe the gospel. What good is it to have an opportunity to believe, if one has not recieved the gift of faith to believe? Eph 2:4,5 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)," Note that we are saved because of His mercy and His love and that is bestowed upon us as a free gift. The will of man is not mentioned! If one has faith in Christ he is saved. He will then willingly (because of his new heart) be baptized. This is the work of GOD not man! John |
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