Results 1 - 4 of 4
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64450 | ||
Hank and all who are interested. I will be responding by pulling pertinent information from the post I debated and following it up with a rebut. 1. Jesus emphatically pointed this out in the Gospel of John when, in reference to believers, He said, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand..." (John 10:28). In this passage, Christ explicitly declared that no one who has received eternal life will ever lose it. The last sentence here states something Jesus never said. John 10:28,29 say, "and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." The key phrases here are “neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand” and “and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.” These two phrases introduce a 3rd person, not the individual Christian (ANYONE SNATCH THEM, NO ONE SNATCH THEM). I will agree that if I am a Christian and pattern my life after Christ that no one, if I am faithful and strong, can pull me away from my faith. This does not mean that I myself cannot become weak and fall back into worldly living. Do you see the difference? 2. The writer refers to 1 Peter 1:5. Verses 3 to 5 state, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." Just a few comments here. The first phrase in question is, "according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again". What did Jesus say to Nicodemus? "Unless one is born again (of water and spirit), he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (Jn 3:3,5) Yep, you guessed it, BAPTISM! The second phrase, "to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you." I do not dispute this. The inheritance is imperishable, undefiled, it will not fade away. It will always be there, FOR THOSE THAT OBEY THE COMMANDS OF THE LORD! Jesus said, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you." Jesus commanded his (11) disciples to make more disciples. How? By baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and then also teaching them to observe ALL things that he commanded them. If Jesus commanded his apostles to baptize they would in turn have to teach those taught to baptize. Something that was never had in the beginning cannot be lost. Until a person is baptized salvation is not had to be lost. Hank, you asked me, "Since half the post contains direct quotations from Scripture itself, your comment leans toward the reckless and illogical, don't you think? The post contains biblical references but not the passage. Only this persons assessment of the passages. Statements like, "You see, while "once saved, always saved" is true from God's perspective, man only looks at the outward appearance and thus cannot always accurately assess who is really saved in the first place." How does this person know God's perspective? How does this person know any man's perspective but his own? Doesn't this lean toward reckless and illogical? |
||||||
2 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | Searcher56 | 64516 | ||
Scripture ... John 3:5-8 ... FTimA, Why do you say John 3:5 is baptism? It is certainly difficult to suppose that Nicodemus would have understood "water" as referring to the not-yet-existent ritual of Christian baptism. What is more, the subject matter of this entire passage is the activity of the Holy Spirit in contrast to the flesh, and it would be most awkward for Jesus to disrupt this train of thought midstream with a reference to a still-future ritual. Hence it seems most likely that "water" is being used as a metaphorical synonym for "Spirit" in verse 5. What further supports this conclusion is the fact that Jesus speaks in a similar manner, but with a different analogy, three verses later. Here being "born of the Spirit" (no mention of water this time) is likened to the wind blowing (John 3:8). But, clearly, being born of the Spirit and being born by the wind are not two different things. Then why think being "born of water" and being "born of the Spirit" are distinct? |
||||||
3 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64626 | ||
What about John's baptism? It was a water baptism unto repentance (Mk 1:4, Lk 3:3, Acts 13:24, Acts 19:4). Jesus's disciples continued to baptize with or without John the baptist (John 4:1,2). Until Christ died, the "ritual of Christian baptism" was of no effect because baptism into Christ is for the remission of sin. Christ died for the sin of man and we could not be baptized for remission of sin until he did die hence a baptism of repentance to "prepare the way" Is 40:3, Mt 3:3, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4, Jn 1:23). Once Christ died it became necessary for those who had only been baptized for repentance to be baptized again, for the remission of sins (Acts 19:1-7). Those that have never been baptized are baptized into Christ. This passage in Acts also supports the truth that baptism into Christ is necessary, hence Paul "re-baptized", if you will, these disciples he found in Ephesus. With the exception of the example of Cornelius, it is also evidence that the Holy Spirit is not received until after baptism, and then, only when an Apostle would lay hands upon the individual. Since there are no more Apostles, the gifts of the Holy Spirit (speaking in tongues, interpreting, miraculous healing, prophesying, etc.) can no longer be passed from one individual (an Apostle) to another. A person receiving a gift from an Apostle did not have the power to transfer gifts, so after the last Apostle died so did the power to transfer gifts. After the last recipient of a gift died, no more gifts. 1 Cor 13:8 But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! The passage from Corinthians clearly shows that the gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease. Some say the "that which is perfect" in following verses is on one hand, the 'perfect' written word of God, which would mean gifts have already ceased, while others say that the "that which is perfect" is Jesus at his second coming. The passage from Acts clearly shows that it was necessary for an Apostle to perform the laying on of hands in order administer or transfer gifts to other men. It is also clear that baptism into "the Lord" is a prerequisite. |
||||||
4 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | Searcher56 | 64639 | ||
No more discussion with you | ||||||