Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | Reformer Joe | 30348 | ||
Well, if you don't like healthy debate, you have found the wrong forum, I am afraid. :) So maybe you can clear up your beliefs a little so I don't have to spend a lot of time trying to figure them out. 1. Are you saying that one must be immersed in water in order to go to heaven? 2. Do only the sinless go to heaven (Your interpretation of Matthew 13:3 and Revelation 21:27 lead me to think that you do)? As far as the Matthew verse is concerned, is it saying that the childlike quality we are to have is sinlessness? Well, let us let Scripture speak for itself, as you say: "Whoever then HUMBLES HIMSELF as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." --Matthew 18:4 Hmmm... In any case, I find it interesting that you scoff at dogmas, creeds, and philosphies. What does the word "dogma" mean? What is a "creed"? Everything you have put forward in your posts could be considered your creed and your dogma. And I assume that you are a man who is putting forth your dogma and creed. Furthermore, I would assume that you did not learn about the Bible in a vacuum, but that you have sat under someone else's teaching. So all that stuff you are putting forward is just a red herring. The question is not whether we listen to the teaching of men (we all have and do), or whether we have a creed or not (and all of us do, whether it is formally written or not); but, rather, which teachings of which men and what creeds correspond most closely to the Bible? --Joe! |
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2 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | yokefellow | 30364 | ||
Dear Joe, You stated, "if you don't like healthy debate, you have found the wrong forum." In the Webster's New World College Dictionary, I find the word "forum" with the following meanings: (a) "an assembly, place, radio program, etc. for the discussion of public matters or current questions (b) an opportunity for open discussion. I don't see anything in this definition concerning "debate" do you? I further do not see in this definition anything regarding a "healthy debate" do you? Besides, how can you possibly "debate" the scriptures if you believe 2 Tim. 3:16? They are "given by inspiration of God." If the truth of the scriptures is "given by inspiration of God", how can God's Word be debated? (Unless you want to "change" God's Word which is strictly forbidden - Deut. 4:2; 12:32; Prov. 30:5-6; Gal. 1:6-9). The only "debate" that could possibly occur is a "debate" over what's NOT in God's Word. Wouldn't that be a more "logical" conclusion? Any time the word "debate" is used in the scriptures, it ALWAYS refers to Greek words whose meanings refer to "STRIFE". I'm quoting from W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary Of Old and New Testament Words, Page 82. 1) ERIS means - strife, contention, is the expression of enmity (Rom. 1:29, R.V., "strife" (A.V., "debate"); Rom. 13:13; 1 Cor. 1:11, "contentions" (R.V. and A.V.); 1 Cor. 3:3; 2 Cor. 12:20, R.V., "strife" (A.V., "debates"); Gal. 5:20, R.V., "strife" (A.V., "variance"; Phil. 1:15; 1 Tim. 6:4; Tit. 3:9, R.V., "strifes" (A.V., "contentions"). 2) ERITHIA - see FACTION. 3) ANTILOGIA - "strife," Heb. 6:16, A.V.: see DISPUTE, A, No. 4. 4) MACHE - "strifes," 2 Tim. 2:23: see FIGHTING, A. 5) PHILONEIKIA - "strife," Luke 22:24, A.V.: see CONTENTION, A, No. 3. 6) LOGOMACHIA - "strife of words", 1 Tim. 6:4: see DISPUTE, A, No. 2. Now, considering the above "quote", my question then to you is, why would a Christian want to engender or promote "STRIFE" on this "forum" or anywhere else for that matter? I would rather believe Mr. Webster's definition that this "forum" should be for the purpose of "learning" through an opportunity of "open discussion". This type of "forum" would allow students of the Bible to freely, rationally and logically ask concerning any type of Bible question, "What do the scriptures say concerning the answer to this question?" and then receive a "Bible answer" rather than giving someone's opinion, idea, philosophy, dogma, creed. A true Bible student doesn't care what someone's opinion, idea, philosophy, dogma, or creed is - their only objective is discovering what God's Word says on a matter - period! Why can't that be the simple criteria of discussion on this forum rather than stirring up strife among individuals? Mike |
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3 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | Reformer Joe | 30367 | ||
Gee, I was kind of hoping you would address the points that I made rather than tearing apart my off-handed, inconsequential remark. And if you contend that God's Word says one thing and I contend that God's Word says another, how do we come to consensus? Let us "openly discuss," then, if you find the word "debate" so offensive. Now back to my post. A true Bible student has a creed. Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Then that is part of your creed. Do you believe that Jesus lives a sinless life? Then that is part of your creed? Do you believe that Jesus bodily rose from the dead? I hope you are getting my point here, Mark. As soon as someone says ANYTHING about God, he is stating his thrology, his dogma, his creed. As I stated before, the question is whether those dogmas, creeds, and theology reflect the truth revealed in Scripture or not. Which brings us back to our discussion. Your own views have been shaped by what you have been taught, just as mine have. You did not just pick up a Bible one day and read it cover to cover and sudenly, mystically have the right answers on everything. God gave teachers to his church, and we are to listen to what they have to say, both to determine if what they say is scriptural and because God the Holy Spirit uses gifted teachers as means to point out the truth of Scripture to God's people. --Joe! |
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4 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | yokefellow | 30377 | ||
Joe, To the true Bible student (and we all are), the only "creed book" should be God's Word - not any human uninspired teaching will suffice - after all, one's eternal destiny hangs in the balance! This is why that we as Bible students are commanded to "Study (give diligence to) to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). Human teachings can NEVER take the place of God's Word because they are simply uninspired teachings. The very next verse in this reading indicates that very thing - notice: Vs. 16 - "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." This verse is teaching that everything NOT commanded by God in the scriptures may safely be placed under this head. It refers to profane (common) and empty questions asked that caused division and strife. These types of questions were to be shunned. Vs. 17 - The word "canker" here in this verse is translated "gangrene". As you well know, gangrene poisons the whole body and quickly becomes fatal. So does the introduction of things NOT taught by God - the doctrines of men. These doctrines spread rapidly, corrupt the whole church till spiritual death ensues. Error is a diffusive poison rapidly spreading through the whole body and tending to vital decay and ultimate destruction (in this case, the soul). Hymenaeus and Philetus obviously fell into this category. Vs. 18 - "Who concerning the truth have erred". When we give sway or lend credence to men's teachings rather than seeing what God's Word says on a matter, we have "erred" in our conclusion and God will hold us accountable on that final judgment day (John 12:48). Notice also 1 Tim. 6:20-21. All I'm simply asking is for folks to simply display the same open mind and determination as the Berean Jews did in "searching the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." What were "those things" - the "things" that Paul and Silas were teaching concerning God's Word (Acts 17:10). As a result of their "searching the scriptures", in verse 12 it says, "Therefore many of them believed." Believe what? Believed the inspired teaching of Paul and Silas. Mike |
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5 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | Reformer Joe | 30405 | ||
So you don't listen to what your pastors have to say? After all, they are "uninspired"... And let's talk about Paul's instructions to Timothy, since you brought them up. "An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, ABLE TO TEACH" --1 Timothy 3:2 "Prescribe and TEACH these things." --1 Timothy 4:11 "Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and TEACHING." --1 Timothy 4:13 "Pay close attention to yourself and to your TEACHING; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you." --1 Timothy 4:16 "The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and TEACHING." --1 Timothy 5:17 "INSTRUCT those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. INSTRUCT them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share" --1 Timothy 6:17-18 "The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to TEACH others also." --2 Timothy 2:2 Hmmm...seems that Paul understands that some men are indeed to teach, wouldn't you say? And these are not HUMAN teachings, despite the fact that the teachers are human. Let's look at one more, just for kicks: "The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will." --2 Timothy 2:24-26 Seems to me that this passage implies that there are some in the church who can be WRONG on doctrine. Seems that God didn't set it up to be "just me, my Bible, and the Holy Spirit." Now you are not answering my specific questions regarding your own beliefs, but you seem to have a real problem with some individuals that have played a prominent role in church history, particularly in the Protestant Reformation. Despite the fact that you (or whomever you quoted before) completely got a lot of Calvin's teaching wrong, if Calvin was indeed teaching what is in the Scriptures, shouldn't we accept it as truth? I wholeheartedly agree that, if his doctrine is man-made and not supported by Scripture, we should throw all the bad parts right out the window. However, you did nothing but mention his name in derision, lumped him in with all them "big, bad, human teachers," misrepresented his theology, and spent the afternoon saying that one should not listen to teachers and their creeds (no matter how Bible-based they are). Pretty unscriptural, considering the verses above... --Joe! |
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