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NASB | John 3:16 ¶ "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | John 3:16 ¶ "For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life. |
Subject: THE CROSS |
Bible Note: Hello again Tim! OK. I wish this was real time so we could ask the questions before the 20 rabbit trails develop. I know you're not doing it on purpose, but nevertheless, it happens and it seems like we're on two different pages. Regarding logic and the atonement. I CAN support my position very effectively with an abundance of Scripture, but that Scripture will be meaningless to you if we don't define a few things under common agreement. So for now, let's make defining ATONEMENT the main priority before we move on. Also, I agree with you 100 percent that we should never place logic alone above God or His revealed Word. But neither should we believe the ILLOGICAL can be supported by Scripture. I don't believe God is the author of confusion. Within confusion there are contradictions. So God is not the author of contradictions. Please explain to me the following your opinion in as much detail as possible: What was the purpose of the Atonement? What effect did the atonement have on the world? When does the atonement become effective? Was Christ's atonement vicarious or symbolic? Hopefully this will be a good starting place. Also, in future discussions on this topic, please keep in mind (but no need to answer now) this questions: Did He or didn't He?? Did Christ pay (atone) for all the sins of the world or didn't He? Did He satisfy the wrath of God or didn't He? Gentlemen, START YOUR ENGINES! In Christ, JIBBS |