Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89739 | ||
Greetings John! Just for the sake of clarity my friend, may I address your last paragraph? You wrote: "The inabilty of man (due to his own lack of desire for Christ) is witnessed to by Jesus in John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." (Notice that the one drawn comes "believing", for he is also raised up on the last day!)" Notice what John 6:44 does not say: 1) Verse 44 does not mention 'beleiving' or 'faith'. 2) Verse 44 does not say that the one drawn will come, but that the one who does come will be raised up. 3) Verse 44 does not specify who or how many are drawn. This is one of those examples where I think more is read into it then is actually there. Your take on it seems to be: "Those who are drawn will come and will be raised up...". But, the verses actually says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." You have continually asked me how a spritually dead person could respond to Christ. I think that the answer is found by tying John 6:44 and 12:32 together. No one is able to come unless God draws them. When Christ was lifted up, He drew all men to Him. Those who come, will be raised up on the last day. I know you don't agree with that last paragraph, and I really don't want to debate all of that again. But, I am curious as to whether you see what I mean about John 6:44. It seems that to me that a lot of things which are not specifically stated in the verse are being read into it. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89744 | ||
Hi Tim, Jesus addressess their unbelief. John 6:36 "But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe." He speaks of the Father as the one who gives to the Son. All those that He gives do come to the Son and none are cast out. John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. None are cast out, because it is not the Father's will that the Son lose even a single one of those whom He has sent, but all will be saved. John 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. No sooner had Jesus told them how it is, than the crowd begins to attempt to demean who He is and the Lord sets them straight by telling the grumbling crowd the basis of salvation; God's soverignty in election! John 6:42-44 They were saying, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, 'I have come down out of heaven'?" Jesus answered and said to them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. That is my reasoning based upon the text alone. I could call many other witnesses from Scripture to support what I contend is the proper reading of John 6. God Bless Tim, John |
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3 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89745 | ||
Greetings John! Now we are getting somewhere! You mentioned John 6:36, but notice that two different words are used in it and 6:44. Nowhere does it say that all who are 'drawn' will come. We both agree that all that the Father has 'given Him' will come. But, where is 'those He has given Me' defined? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89754 | ||
Hello Tim, "where is 'those He has given Me' defined?" John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. They all shall be taught by God. "All" who? All whom the Father draws. John 6:64,65 "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father." "For this reason..." "there are some of you who do not believe." Tim we have been down this road before. I am not losing hope, but, this road must be appoached from the road called Total Depravity. Once one accepts that dead means dead, then everything else fall into place. If, as you claim, The Father draws all men univerally, where is your evidence? Where are the pockets of christianity that sprang up without the preaching of the gospel? They don't exist! Yes, we walk by faith not by sight, but God has not told us to abandon reason and common sense altogether! The beautiful thing about the Bible is that all the pieces fit together so beautifully. Viewed as a whole it pleases our spirit and our God-given reason as well. Your Brother, John |
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5 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89780 | ||
Greetings John! Now we're backing up again! ;-) You wrote: "John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. They all shall be taught by God. "All" who? All whom the Father draws." Where exactly does John 6:45 says 'all wom the Father draws will be taught by God'? Where exactly is 'spiritually dead' defined as being unable to respond? Where is my evidence? John 12:32, Rom. 11:32, Rom. 16:26, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 1 Tim. 4:10 - for starters. Let me ask you, according to 2 Cor. 3:12-4:4, who 'veiled' people's hearts and blinded their minds? According to these same verses, when is the veil removed? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89861 | ||
Hi Tim, "Where exactly does John 6:45 says 'all whom the Father draws will be taught by God" Ok. let's put v45 in context. (41,42) The Jews are grumbling, saying that Jesus is a mere man (the son of Joseph). They rejected His claim to divinity. (43) But Jesus is not put off by their unbelief and explains to them the reason why they are unable to believe. (44) To "come to" Jesus, means to come believing, not, just physically coming into His prescence. James White has pointed out that "if the text had stopped..." before "unless", "there would be no hope and no good news." The good news is, there is more than hope for those whom the Father inables to come to Jesus through His drawing of them! Keep in mind the fact that, all who come to the Son are raised up on the last day. White also states "Reformed scholars assert that the ones who are drawn are the ones who are given by the Father to the Son, i.e., the elect" (45) to hear and learn from the Father is paralelled with being drawn in 44. See John 8:47 where Jesus uses similar languange. "Where exactly is 'spiritually dead' defined as being unable to respond?" They can respond! But being dead in sin and having wicked hearts, they respond according to their hearts desire, which is to make God in the image of man. Unless God has drawn them, they will continue in iniquity and sinfull dis-belief. "Let me ask you, according to 2 Cor. 3:12-4:4, who 'veiled' people's hearts and blinded their minds? According to these same verses, when is the veil removed?" 2 Cor 3:12 "Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech" ? 2 Cor 4:3,4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. As Martin Luther said "Even the devil is God's devil." God uses whatever means He wishes to accomplish His eternal purpose. Time to get to work! God Bless, John |
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