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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89894 | ||
Greetings Jibbs! I understand that what you believe about election has a signficant impact upon how you interpret Scripture. The question is, where is 'election' defined in Scripture? Or, more to the point, where is your definition of 'election' found in Scripture? The term 'elect' is used in a descriptive sense in Scripture. But, most people will be surprized to find out that it is never actually defined in Scripture. So, once again, much of the import given to the word is speculation, not actually based upon a Scripture verse or passage which actually defines the term. Whoops! I almost forgot your question. No! Someone who dies without beieving in Christ is not elect. But, election is not a limited to certain people, but is an election of grace extended to all men. It is primarily (in the words of Robert Shank) corporate, not individual, and it is not unconditional. If you would like to read some of my past posts on this point, just search for my user name and the words 'corporate' and 'election'. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Mickodemus | 89928 | ||
Dear Brother Tim, Please define for me these verses: Psalm 105:43 "Isreal is called his chosen ones." Psalm 135:4 "The Lord has chosen Jacob for Himself." Deut. 7:6 "The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth." Christ is called, "Christ mine elect." God's angels are called "elect angels." The Church in the N.T. is always referred to as "elect/chosen by God." John 15:16 "YOU HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, I HAVE CHOSEN YOU." ACTS 13:48-"As many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." (Did this mean that some who were there were not appointed to eternal life and did not believe? hhhhmmm) Rom 9- The elective purposes of God, ie...the Potter and the clay, God chose Jacob and not Esau. Eph 1:11-12- Predestined according to the plan of God. 1st Thess 1:4- We know that God has chosen/elected you. 2nd Thess 2:13- God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation. Luke 4:24-27 only Naaman the Serian was healed of Leaprosy. (and not one Jew) At anytime you can substitute the word elect for chose, chosen, etc... the Hebrew word for chosen is bachiyr- select:--choose, chosen one, elect. The Greek word for chosen is ekloge-meaning (divine)selection (abstractly or concretely):--- chosen, election. Look it up for yourself in "Strongs Bible Dictionary." Elect not defined in Scripture? I don't think so Tim. ") Sola Scriptura, Mike |
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3 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89933 | ||
Greetings Mike! I never said that the word 'elect' or 'election' never occurs in the Bible. I asked which verse or verses defines 'election' as being limited to only some people! The term is used in a descriptive sense many times, but no verse says that God has limited 'election' to only a few. That part is the assumption. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Assumption? | John 3:16 | Mickodemus | 89938 | ||
Brother Tim, Assumption? What does election mean? Didn't you read the verses I gave you in the last note? Primarily the N.T. verses? Especially the 1st and 2nd Thess. verses. The definition of election speaks for themselves. elect-to choose one or the other. How can one word be defined in Hebrew and Greek as a word and then stated that it really isn't what it says it is? Is everyone part of the elect? Judas Iscariot and the Pharaoh in Exodus chapter 4-14, are they among the elect? I don't think so Tim! :) Sola Scriptura Mike |
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5 | Assumption? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89959 | ||
Greetings Mike! I am going to have to wrap this up. All of these threads are simply going in circles now! :-) Allow me to explain what I mean. A word being used in a sentence does not necessarily define a word. For instance, John is called the Disciple that Jesus loved. Does that mean that John is the only disciple that Jesus loved? In the same way, because believers are called the Elect of God, does not tell us anything about the extent or method of election. How does one become on of the elect? The assumption of Calvinists is that election primarily refers to the unconditional election of individuals to salvation. But, no Scripture actually defines the term. Another way of looking at election is that election refers primarily to God's corporate working through nations to accomplish His purpose of mercy for all men. In this approach, people may become part of the Elect body of Christ. For instance, Rom. 11 seems to be an example of this. The group which is hardened and specifically said to not be part of the elect, is later said to be able to be grafted again if they do not continue in their unbelief. Now, I know how you will respond. I don't want to keep debating this never ending debate. I just want to encourage everyone to make a distinction between what Scripture actually says and what we assume that it means. I look forward to discussing other matters with you my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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