Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | JibbyJee | 89698 | ||
Dear Tim You're right, please forgive me. That was stupid and utterly Calvinistic of me to look at what the words actually IMPLIED and respond to the implication instead of the statement itself. Put it this way Tim. I've tried and tried to get you to be honest with the text and CONTEXT, yet you want more than anything to hold on to your interpretations as absolute rule. But you don't give any solid explanations or definitive rebuttals of the reformed arguments. That's fine, I can't force you to see something you don't see. BUT, the Reformed view makes absolutely perfect sense to me and many others and I don't have to do anything more than keep the CONTEXT of Scripture in my heart and mind when attempting to understand it. I couldn't interpret the Bible and come to an Arminian view without being dishonest with myself. If there is sin in that, than so be it. I know in my heart that God has me seeking absolute truth so I have nothing to be afraid of when someone confronts my understanding of Scripture. In fact, I pray that He brings others into my life to help teach and correct me when I'm wrong. I pray that He always gives me a mind ready to learn and a heart willing to be taught. I see the Bible as a beautifully adorned landscape. On the surface, it boasts the most amazing array of wonders and majesty. Yet below the surface their lies even more--treasures of gold and diamonds and pearls. Sometimes you gotta dig to find the loot. In Christ, JIBBS PS Regarding the silly statement about God electing all men (which you obvious believe, in spite of reality) please read and ponder this: Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now tell me Tim: ARE ALL MEN ELECT? OHHHH...which reminds me..you wanted verses showing that Jesus only died for the elect...HERE ONE IS AGAIN: Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd; and I know MINE OWN, and MINE OWN know me, Joh 10:15 even as the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my life FOR THE SHEEP. Let me guess...you'll quote "we all like sheep have gone astray"...therefore, ALL are sheep, right? Ok, Tim, if you say so ol' buddy. If I'm getting too sarcastic, let me know. I promise you it's in good fun. No hard feelings. |
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2 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89735 | ||
Greetings Jibbs! Are all men elect? I don't know! Where in Scripture does it specify how many are elect? ;-) How about John 10:14-15? Does this teach that Christ only died for a limited number of people? Suppose I were to say, 'I love everyone on this forum'. Does that mean that I don't love anyone else except for those on this forum? Of course it doesn't! Neither does it mean, when Jesus says that He loves 'you', or that He died for His sheep, that He didn't die for anyone else. It would, if it said I only die for so and so! This is an example of what I mentioned in my last two posts. Scripture never actuallys says what your claiming, but you can cite verses which you interpret to mean what you are saying. However, not everyone buys the intepretation. But, Scripture does specify that Christ died for all men. No interpretation required of that statement! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | JibbyJee | 89884 | ||
Greetings Tim! You said "Are all men elect? I don't know! Where in Scripture does it specify how many are elect? ;-)" I think you missed my point. If someone dies without believing on Christ, are they elect? I believe how we understand the word 'elect' has significant value to our interpretation of Scripture. Take care! In Christ, JIBBS |
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4 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89894 | ||
Greetings Jibbs! I understand that what you believe about election has a signficant impact upon how you interpret Scripture. The question is, where is 'election' defined in Scripture? Or, more to the point, where is your definition of 'election' found in Scripture? The term 'elect' is used in a descriptive sense in Scripture. But, most people will be surprized to find out that it is never actually defined in Scripture. So, once again, much of the import given to the word is speculation, not actually based upon a Scripture verse or passage which actually defines the term. Whoops! I almost forgot your question. No! Someone who dies without beieving in Christ is not elect. But, election is not a limited to certain people, but is an election of grace extended to all men. It is primarily (in the words of Robert Shank) corporate, not individual, and it is not unconditional. If you would like to read some of my past posts on this point, just search for my user name and the words 'corporate' and 'election'. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Mickodemus | 89928 | ||
Dear Brother Tim, Please define for me these verses: Psalm 105:43 "Isreal is called his chosen ones." Psalm 135:4 "The Lord has chosen Jacob for Himself." Deut. 7:6 "The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth." Christ is called, "Christ mine elect." God's angels are called "elect angels." The Church in the N.T. is always referred to as "elect/chosen by God." John 15:16 "YOU HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, I HAVE CHOSEN YOU." ACTS 13:48-"As many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." (Did this mean that some who were there were not appointed to eternal life and did not believe? hhhhmmm) Rom 9- The elective purposes of God, ie...the Potter and the clay, God chose Jacob and not Esau. Eph 1:11-12- Predestined according to the plan of God. 1st Thess 1:4- We know that God has chosen/elected you. 2nd Thess 2:13- God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation. Luke 4:24-27 only Naaman the Serian was healed of Leaprosy. (and not one Jew) At anytime you can substitute the word elect for chose, chosen, etc... the Hebrew word for chosen is bachiyr- select:--choose, chosen one, elect. The Greek word for chosen is ekloge-meaning (divine)selection (abstractly or concretely):--- chosen, election. Look it up for yourself in "Strongs Bible Dictionary." Elect not defined in Scripture? I don't think so Tim. ") Sola Scriptura, Mike |
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6 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89933 | ||
Greetings Mike! I never said that the word 'elect' or 'election' never occurs in the Bible. I asked which verse or verses defines 'election' as being limited to only some people! The term is used in a descriptive sense many times, but no verse says that God has limited 'election' to only a few. That part is the assumption. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Assumption? | John 3:16 | Mickodemus | 89938 | ||
Brother Tim, Assumption? What does election mean? Didn't you read the verses I gave you in the last note? Primarily the N.T. verses? Especially the 1st and 2nd Thess. verses. The definition of election speaks for themselves. elect-to choose one or the other. How can one word be defined in Hebrew and Greek as a word and then stated that it really isn't what it says it is? Is everyone part of the elect? Judas Iscariot and the Pharaoh in Exodus chapter 4-14, are they among the elect? I don't think so Tim! :) Sola Scriptura Mike |
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8 | Assumption? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89959 | ||
Greetings Mike! I am going to have to wrap this up. All of these threads are simply going in circles now! :-) Allow me to explain what I mean. A word being used in a sentence does not necessarily define a word. For instance, John is called the Disciple that Jesus loved. Does that mean that John is the only disciple that Jesus loved? In the same way, because believers are called the Elect of God, does not tell us anything about the extent or method of election. How does one become on of the elect? The assumption of Calvinists is that election primarily refers to the unconditional election of individuals to salvation. But, no Scripture actually defines the term. Another way of looking at election is that election refers primarily to God's corporate working through nations to accomplish His purpose of mercy for all men. In this approach, people may become part of the Elect body of Christ. For instance, Rom. 11 seems to be an example of this. The group which is hardened and specifically said to not be part of the elect, is later said to be able to be grafted again if they do not continue in their unbelief. Now, I know how you will respond. I don't want to keep debating this never ending debate. I just want to encourage everyone to make a distinction between what Scripture actually says and what we assume that it means. I look forward to discussing other matters with you my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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