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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is God omnipotent? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89394 | ||
Greetings John! It never ceases to amaze me my friend that verses never actually mean what they say! ;-) Did God really intend for His Word to be this complicated to understand? 'All' doesn't mean 'all', 'anyone' doesn't really mean 'anyone', and now 'saved' doesn't really mean 'saved'! Your proposition has been that regeneration precedes faith, even though not one verse actually says this. However, I pointed out that Acts 16:31 says 'believe' and then you will be saved. Now, unless you are prepared to argue that a regenerated person is not saved, then Acts 16:31 disagrees with your proposition. It doesn't matter that it is narrative. Paul is responding to a very direct question, 'What must I do to be saved?'. Therefore, we know that the context is germane to the discussion. But, this isn't even the only passage with indicates that the elements of salvation follow faith. Here are some of the verses I posted the other day: *********************************** So, let's look at what Scripture actually says about faith: Gal. 2:16 - "know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified." Does this verse say that we are justfied prior to or after faith? Gal. 3:26 - "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus," Does this verse say that we become sons of God prior to or after faith? Gal. 3:2 - "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" Does this verse say that we received the Spirit before or after believing? Rom. 3:26 - "he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus" Does this verse say that we are justified before or after faith? Rom. 3:22 - "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference," Does righteousness come before or after faith? John 20:31 - "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." Do we receive life before or after believing? Acts 16:31 - "They replied, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.'" Are we saved and then believe, or do we believe and are then saved? Eph. 1:13 - "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit," Are we sealed prior to or after believing? All of these verses specifically mention either salvation or elements of salvation. And, all of these verses specifically say that these things come after faith. ************************************ Can a regenerate man be unsaved, unjustified, not a Son of God, unsealed, and without the Holy Spirit? All of these things are said to take place after faith. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Is God omnipotent? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89433 | ||
Dear Tim, Gal. 2:16 - "know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified." "Does this verse say that we are justfied prior to or after faith?" "So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus." In the natural sense it seem that faith preceeds regeneration. But the verse does not specify the origen of the faith itself. My belief is that the order of salvation is less important than discovering the source of faith itself. If faith is something of my own, and my exercise of it is what turns the key in the lock of eternal life, if my assent to believe is crucial then I have something of which to boast. Don't get me wrong, I am not attempting a dodge from the order of salvation. Faith may also accompany the new birth, but our main concern is where faith comes from to begin with. Whether it preceeds or occurs simultaneously with re-generation, it make no difference to the larger question. Does fallen man really have the ability to believe or disbelieve as he chooses? Is'nt it true that if you believe something to be true, that it is impossible not to believe it, unless your mind is changed by new information which persuades you otherwise? If this is true in general, then it must be doubly true for the lost sinner. He is not a blank slate or neutral where the gospel is concerned. To the contrary, he is utterly opposed to the truth of God! Those who reject the gospel are simply responding to what they consider foolishness. Who could blame them? The gospel is spiritually discerned and the lost sinner is carnal. He is 100 per cent "old man". Dead in sin, a slave to sin and to the devil, without God and without hope in the world. It is not because they believe the gospel but reject believing that they perish, but as the bible says, they consider it to be foolishness after having heard it! What then makes the difference between those who believe it and those who think it foolish? The power of God! 1 Thess 1:5 for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. John |
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3 | Is God omnipotent? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89458 | ||
Greetings John! The problem is that the devil is in the details! :-) We can debate where faith comes from in another thread. The point I have been addressing was the statement made on the forum that the Bible teaches that regeneration precedes faith. You wrote: "Faith may also accompany the new birth, but our main concern is where faith comes from to begin with. Whether it preceeds or occurs simultaneously with re-generation, it make no difference to the larger question." Yet, Gal. 2:16 doesn't say that it is simultaneous or that it precedes the new birth. It says that justification is the result of faith, so it must occur after. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Is God omnipotent? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89467 | ||
Hi Tim, "Yet, Gal. 2:16 doesn't say that it is simultaneous or that it precedes the new birth. It says that justification is the result of faith, so it must occur after." Assuming that you are correct, and the abiliy to believe is present in the un-regenerate, what makes the difference between those whom percieve the gospel as foolishness, and those who percieve it as the power of God? I also would appreciate your explanation of the unusal phraseology which Paul employs in 1 Cor 1:18 "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. "but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." A somewhat unusual way of putting it was my first thought. " those who are perishing" and "to us who are being saved". It's as if Paul is describing a process; something that has a beginning, a middle and an end. Calvin paraphrased it saying "However the preaching of the cross, as having nothing of human wisdom to recommend it to esteem, is reckoned foolishness by them that perish; in our view, notwithstanding, the wisdom of God clearly shines forth in it." But I believe Matthew Henry fleshed it out for me. "We have the different effects of this preaching: To those who perish it is foolishness, but to those who are saved it is the power of God, v. 18. It is to the Jews a stumbling-block, and to the Greeks foolishness; but unto those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God, v. 23, 24. Would you agree that that which makes the difference between the two groups (the perising and those being saved)is God's call? John, PS despite what others may say, I find the exploration of the great doctrines of the faith exciting and edifying! |
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5 | Is God omnipotent? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89477 | ||
Greetings John! I too enjoy a good discussion! Allow me to touch upon your response and then your question. 1) It isn't really a question of whether I'm correct or not since Gal. 2:16 quite plainly says that justification is a result of faith. 2) I believe that salvation and 'perishing' are both a process to a degree. I preached once out of 1 Peter about the past, present, and future aspects of our salvation. Anyway, concerning 1 Cor. 1:18, the first thing that I notice is that there is no information at all about why people are perishing or if that status can be changed. However, Paul uses this same exact word in three other places and two of these places do address these points. First of all, 2 Thess. 2:10 says: " and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." So, why do people perish? Is it because God has chosen not to save them? According to this verse, they are perishing because they rejected the truth. Secondly, 2 Cor. 4:3 says: "And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing." This would seem to support your position, except for the last few verses of chapter 3. 2 Cor. 3:14 - "But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." Faith comes to the perishing through the preaching of the Gospel (Rom. 10:17). If that person then accepts the truth, they will be saved. Well, I have to get to bed now. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Is God omnipotent? | John 3:16 | Pastor Glenn | 89522 | ||
Tim, Excellent post! 2 cor 3:16 says it all: 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. I suspect that Mr Calvin missed this verse too. |
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