Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | do you concur? | John 3:16 | Parable | 89339 | ||
John, Your explanation seems to differ from the other two offered in response to my question to you. (see "prazn" ID#89262 and "The Lord's Church" ID#89263) However, I may be missing something. Do you concur with their explanations? Also, as noted by Morant61 ID#89075, the antecedent of "it" in Eph 2:8 is salvation, not faith. What is your response to this view? Parable |
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2 | do you concur? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89356 | ||
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; ANTECEDENT: The noun to which a relative refers; as, in the sentence "Solomon was the prince who built the temple," prince is the antecedent of who. (Webster) Salvation is the presumed antecedent noun. "For by grace you have been saved through faith;" lists 2 defining elements: Grace and faith. Grace, we all agree, is from God alone and does not depend on an act of assent from it's recipient. The question is: Does "saving faith", come from God alone as well? Or, is it an intrinsic attribute common to all men, fallen and born-again alike? John 3:27 John answered and said, "A man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven. All men have do have faith. They have faith in themselves and in their their idols. But do all men have "saving faith"? Obviously not, or all would be saved. It is my contention, based upon scripture alone, that a faith that actually saves is part and parcel with the gift of grace in v.8. Let's not forget the qualifying clause "and that not of yourselves". John, PS I agree with prazn but did not fully understand T.L.C. |
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3 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | Parable | 89357 | ||
I have two quesions about your comment "Grace, we all agree, is from God alone and does not depend on an act of assent from it's recipient." In Romans 5:2, Paul says "through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand." Paul seems to be saying that access to this grace is by faith. 1. Isn't this faith an "assent from it's recipient"? 2. If not, is faith involuntary? Also, regarding your questions "Does "saving faith", come from God alone as well? Or, is it an intrinsic attribute common to all men, fallen and born-again alike?" My understanding is that our intrinsic attributes as His creation include genuine freedom to choose. I grant that saving faith is not part of a person, at least until that person chooses it, by surrendering to the Spirit, acknowledging their guilt and repenting of their wickedness. Otherwise, 3. how can we understand that an all-loving, all powerful, all wise God would withhold faith from some, only to result in them being damned? 4. Why would God create people He knows can never be saved because He withholds the gift of faith? Parable |
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4 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89360 | ||
Dear Parable, 3. how can we understand that an all-loving, all powerful, all wise God would withhold faith from some, only to result in them being damned? By trusting His judgement instad of our own. 4. Why would God create people He knows can never be saved because He withholds the gift of faith? He does'nt. Every one the Father draws, He teaches, and gives to His Son, who raises them up on the last day. (John 6) Why does man always seek to elevate himself above God ALL-MIGHTY? We are nothing but dust. Mere clay in the potter's hands. He molds each one of us according to His good pleasure and not a one of us can say "Why have you made me this way". (Rom 9) Even the ability to understand and recieve salvation depends on grace. 1 Cor 2:14,15 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. Question: which one is at the center of theology, man or God? You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" John |
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5 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | Parable | 89471 | ||
1. When I asked "how can we understand that an all-loving, all powerful, all wise God would withhold faith from some, only to result in them being damned?" you said "By trusting His judgement instad of our own." IF this is indeed what God does, i.e. withhold the gift of faith, then I agree with you. Of course, in general I agree that we should trust Him, not ourselves. But that's the very point I wish to explore, that is, whether God withholds the gift of faith from some, knowing they will perish. This understanding seems derived from Augustine, not scripture and is contrary to clear statements that Jesus loved us while we were sinners, that He came to save sinners, so that all who believe in him might not perish. I cannot make any sense of the idea that Jesus would deny anyone the gift of faith. However, it is easy to understand that some people will choose to deny His gift. To confirm, are you saying that God creates unbelievers only to destroy them? 2. When I asked that question previously, you said "He does'nt. Every one the Father draws, He teaches, and gives to His Son, who raises them up on the last day. (John 6)" Do you mean to suggest that all will be saved on the last day? Isn't this universalism? Hasn't this doctrine been shown to be unbiblical? 3. Finally, I look forward to your responses to my first two questions from before, i.e. "Isn't this faith an "assent from it's recipient"? "If not, is faith involuntary?" Peace, Parable |
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6 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89482 | ||
Dear Parable, "To confirm, are you saying that God creates unbelievers only to destroy them?" No, I do not believe that God is at all sadistic nor are any of His works less than perfect in their holiness. But we are not dealing with a race of victims. We are dealing with a race of rebels; By birth none seek God, none are righteous, all have gone astray seeking the fulfillment of their lusts and all are counted as children of God's wrath, being without hope and without God in the world. Salvation comes to those whom God shows mercy. The rest recieve His justice. Unless one understands the sink of depravity which is the heart of fallen mankind, one cannot fully appreciate how gracious God is, having sent His Son to die for us, and this while we were still actively seeking His downfall! "Do you mean to suggest that all will be saved on the last day? Isn't this universalism? Hasn't this doctrine been shown to be unbiblical?" No my statement does not support universalism and no, it is not unbiblical. John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." John 6:44,45 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me." "Isn't this faith an "assent from it's recipient"? Strictly speaking, assenting is a response to faith. If one believes something, they belive it. It is not a choice that one makes whether or not to believe. For instance, I'm sure you believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, did you believe this on your own, or did God reveal it to you? I you answer, "I believed it on my own (a choice I made after learning the facts of the bible) then, I suppose, you are liable to change your mind if you lose confidence in those facts. On the other hand, if it was a revelation from God, who not only informed but also transformed you by the work of the Holy Spirit, through the power of the Gospel, you now have the mind of the immutable God of the universe! "If not, is faith involuntary" becomes a mute question. I must get about my business for now. Til then I look forward to hearing your thoughts. God Bless, John |
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7 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | Parable | 89624 | ||
You argue well. It is a pleasure to explore God's truth with you. I'd like to followup on your comment "But we are not dealing with a race of victims. We are dealing with a race of rebels;" Doesn't this imply that we are accountable, i.e. "not victims", precisely because WE make the choice to rebel? I hold we are accountable for our choices and this requires that our choices be genuine. For our choices to be geniuine, we must have the ability to act on them in a meaningful way and this means we have some power and authority of our own, within the context God provides. Of course, those gifts come from God. You also said "Salvation comes to those whom God shows mercy." I totally agree, especially in light of "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." -- Romans 11:32 I take this to mean that God gives us over to our choices, i.e. He allows us to choose and reap the consequences, and His mercy is gracious precisely because we definitely don't deserve it. Then there is "he who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. Blessed is the man who always fears the LORD , but he who hardens his heart falls into trouble." -- Proverbs 28:13-14 I take this to mean that it is WE who, in response to conviction by the Spirit, choose to confess or to harden our hearts. That is, it is possible to deny the conviction of the Spirit and thus harden our hearts. Along the same lines, "let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD , and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon." -- Isiah 55:7 Again, I take this to mean that the choice to repent and accept God is ours, not God's. Finally, you said "strictly speaking, assenting is a response to faith. If one believes something, they belive it. It is not a choice that one makes whether or not to believe." I choose not to believe this ;) Let me illustrate. In mathematics, there are repeating non-terminating decimals such as 0.999999 where the 9's go on forever. The question is, does this equal 1.0 exactly or not? I can rigorously prove via standard methods that this number does in fact equal 1.0 exactly, but unless you understand and accept the methods of the proof, you probably will not be persuaded. If you are like most people, your intuition suggests that 0.9999 repeating falls short of unity. However, once you see that your assumptions about what this number means are false, you will change your mind, i.e. repent. A converse example involves the proof that 2 equals 1. However, this obviously incorrect conclusion can only be derived by a fallacious step in the proof, i.e. dividing by the equivalent of zero, which is not permitted. If you do not recognize the fallacious step, you might choose to believe that 2 does in fact equal 1. Once the flaw is revealed, you would then repent of your error. Granted, the ability to understand logic is a gift, but the application of that gift is ours. Otherwise, it is not a gift given freely, but rather a means by which to control your thinking. Based on the significance of our choices described in Scripture, I do not hold that God manipulates us in this way. |
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8 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89629 | ||
Dear Parable, Thanks for your kind words. Some think I argue to much. Perhaps their right. :-) "I'd like to followup on your comment "But we are not dealing with a race of victims. We are dealing with a race of rebels;" Doesn't this imply that we are accountable, i.e. "not victims", precisely because WE make the choice to rebel?" Absolutely right! We are responsible for every single rebellious sin we commit. I'm somewhat pressed for time right now, but intend to answer your post fully as God provides the opportunity. Til then, I would appreciate if you might consider answering a question that I believe is crucial to our current discussion: Is it possible for a person to choose something other than the strongest desire of his heart? Thank you brother, John |
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9 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | Parable | 89636 | ||
You asked "Is it possible for a person to choose something other than the strongest desire of his heart?" I believe the answer is yes. People choose between mundane options all the time. Or, we can choose to accept the best option available even though it is not ideal. Or, we can choose to compromise in order to work with others. Or, we can choose to avoid something we don't want. Perhaps more the issue at hand, what is the origin of our heart's desire? In Mere Christianity, C.S. Lewis said "If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." Parable |
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10 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89643 | ||
Greetings Parable! Excellent answer my friend! I have even debated this point with mechanical evolutionists. They take a mechanistic approach to human will. Every choice is simply a result of another prior choice. The end result is that I drank a Pepsi today because two atoms collided in a galaxy 30 million light years from here over 2 billion years ago. :-) Choices are complex things. People can choose things based upon their own self interests. People can choose things against their own self interests (just ask my oldest daughter). People can choose things with much thought and planning. People can choose things without any thought. To simply say that man has a sin nature, therefore man is incapable of choosing or desiring anything but sin is simplistic at best. If this were turn, we would be nothing more than animals who always acted out our sinful desires. But, even unbelievers don't actually live that way. My parents were very moral people, even though they were not Christians. Now, I know and you know that will not get them to Heaven. But, if fallen man could do nothing but sin all the time, there would be no moral sinners. In fact, there would not be a human race at all, for we would have killed each other off a long time ago. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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11 | why would God withhold the gift of faith | John 3:16 | Parable | 89645 | ||
Thanks for your kindness. Regarding naturalistic materialism, mechanical evolution, whatever you want to call it, those world views cannot explain such things as consciousness, imagination, creativity, language, remorse, joy and truth. Those who suggest we simply need more time to figure them out do so by faith in their worldview. Faith is perhaps the hardest thing to explain, second only to love, which is mutually exclusive to natural selection, which is the basis for evolutionary development. Parable |
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