Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89254 | ||
Dear Pastor Glenn, There is an important arguement against the doctrine which says that, God wills that none should perish, but because of stubborn refusal to embrace Christ, many do perish. This arguement is that if man can resist and overcome all of God's efforts to persuade him to surrender to the love of Christ, then the willof God is shown to be weaker then that of man. Pastor you stated "Think whatever else you will about election, but you must see that this scripture very clearly shows God's will that "all" should turn from there sins and be saved:" Of course, the idea that the creature's will is able to resist and defeat His creator is not found in the Bible, but in "Frankenstien"! The passages from Ezekial which you have provided speak to God's decreetive will (That which He has commanded). This is the OT law which God ordained tobe a school-teacher. It was never a way to salvation that any fallen man was capable of obeying. It was meant to point man to the cross of Christ and salvation by grace alone through faith. The Bible is clear when it says in Isa 46:9,10 " Is 46:9,10 "Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure". Question: If it was God's good pleasure to save all men, and yet some perish, what are we to make of this passage from Isaiah? I believe the "free-willer" would respond that it was also God's good pleasure to permit man the freedom to resist God's will. But that does not solve anything, it just nuetralizes Isa 46:10 9,10. The problem with this is that nowhere in the Bible is free-will mentioned as an attribute of fallen man. The conflict of opinion ( as I see it) that exists between us arises from what does "will" mean when the Bible says God wills or does not "will" something. "Affirming the will of God to save all, while also affirming the unconditional election of some, implies that there are at least "two wills" in God, or two ways of willing. It implies that God decrees one state of affairs while also willing and teaching that a different state of affairs should come to pass. This distinction in the way God wills has been expressed in various ways throughout the centuries. It is not a new contrivance. For example, theologians have spoken of sovereign will and moral will, efficient will and permissive will, secret will and revealed will, will of decree and will of command, decretive will and preceptive will, voluntas signi (will of sign) and voluntas beneplaciti (will of good pleasure), etc...." ...To avoid all misconceptions it should be made clear at the outset that the fact that God wishes or wills that all people should be saved does not necessarily imply that all will respond to the gospel and be saved. We must certainly distinguish between what God would like to see happen and what he actually does will to happen, and both of these things can be spoken of as God's will. The question at issue is not whether all will be saved but whether God has made provision in Christ for the salvation of all, provided that they believe, and without limiting the potential scope of the death of Christ merely to those whom God knows will believe." (John Piper) If you are interested in reading Piper's article, "Are There Two Wills in God", it is at http://www.desiringgod.org/library/topics/doctrines_grace/2wills.html Thanks again brother, John |
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2 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89268 | ||
Greetings John! I know your going to hate me for this, but I can't resist! Here is a verse which says that God does not will anyone to perish: 2 Pet. 3:9 - "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." Where is there a verse which says that God does will some to perish? I keep hearing about these two 'wills' of God, but I have yet to see any Scripture verses which states this second will of God. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89278 | ||
Dear Tim, "I know your going to hate me for this, but I can't resist!" Au contraire, mon ami! I love you for bringing up the 2 Peter 3:9. Is it not the very word of God? Verse 9 is a beautiful jewel that should be treasured by all who are His. But to fully appreciate it's beauty, it must be observed in it's setting. Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation." For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. The following paragraphs are from "The Potter's Freedom" by James R. White "Immediately one sees that unlike such passages as Ephesians 1, Romans 8-9, or John 6, this passage is not speaking about salvation as its topic. The reference to "coming to repentance" in 3:9 is made in passing. The topic is the coming of Christ. In the last days mockers will question the validity of His prom- ise. Peter is explaining the reason why the coming of Christ has been delayed as long as it has. The day of the Lord, he says, will come like a thief, and it will come at God's own time. " "But the next thing that stands out upon the reading of the passage is the clear identification of the audience to which Peter is speaking. When speaking of the mockers he refers to them in the third person, as "them." But everywhere else he speaks directly to his audience as the "beloved" and "you." He speaks of how his audience should behave "in holy conduct and godliness," and says that they look for the day of the Lord. He includes himself in this group in verse 13, where "we are looking for a new heavens and a new earth." This is vitally important, for the assumption made by the Arminian is that when verse 9 says the Lord is "patient toward you" that this "you" refers to everyone. Likewise, then, when it says "not wishing for any to perish" but "all to come to repentance," it is assumed that the "any" and "all" refers to anyone at all of the human race. Yet, the context indicates that the audience is quite specific. In any other passage of Scripture the interpreter would would realize that we must decide who the "you" refer to and use this to limit the "any" and "all" of V.9 for some reason that simple and fundamental necessity is overlooked when this passage is cited ." Tim, since we have gone over this verse in depth before, but were unable to resolve our differences, I thought White may prove helpfull. God Bless, John |
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4 | When is an indefinite pronoun definite? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89302 | ||
Greetings John! I know you would never really hate me! :-) I have heard this interpretation before, but it doesn't make any sense for two reasons. 1) First of all, if the basis for the Lord's delay in coming is that He doesn't want any of the people to whom Peter is writing to perish, then what is the basis for the Lord's delay. The one's to whom Peter is writing are already saved! 2) Secondly, the pronoun 'you' is not the only pronoun used. Peter also uses 'any' and 'all'. Now, we have discussed 'all' before, but 'any' is an indefinite pronoun. It does to refer to 'all' people with out discrimination, hence the 'indefinite' part. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | When is an indefinite pronoun definite? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89303 | ||
Hi Tim, For the sake of His collective "beloved" present and future. Acts 2:39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." White, who is proficient in greek as well as English said "for the assumption made by the Arminian is that when verse 9 says the Lord is "patient toward you" that this "you" refers to everyone. Likewise, then, when it says "not wishing for any to perish" but "all to come to repentance," it is assumed that the "any" and "all" refers to anyone at all of the human race. Yet, the context indicates that the audience is quite specific. I agree with White, not because he is a scholar or a reformed baptist, but because my sense of english language usage is confirmed by his claim that context is the key to identifying who is "any" and "all". Naturally your free to disagree. But I believe you would be hard pressed to refute his conclusion. John |
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6 | When is an indefinite pronoun definite? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89323 | ||
Greetings John! Assuming your interpretation is accurate, why would it be permissible to make 'you' refer to all believers, past and future, but not permissible to make 'any' and 'all' refer to anyone and all individuals? What exactly is the contextual justification for this approach? It seems to me that you can't have it both ways. Either 'you' and 'any' simply refer to the original readers of the Epistle, or they can refer to a wider group. However, if they refer to a wider group, then you lose your justification for limiting 'any' and 'all'. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | When is an indefinite pronoun definite? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89331 | ||
Dear Tim, Peter's topic (2nd Coming of Christ) is not meant for a small group in a particular place and time, but for the "invisible church" (all believers throughout the world and Throughout the ages. That is the context! These believers are the "beloved". Bro. John |
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