Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89118 | ||
Hi Pastor, "...that means we would have elected God. ..."??? Yes, that is what it would mean. If you choose to vote for Joe Blow for Mayor, then you are voting to elect Joe Blow. If you choose to make Christ the Lord of your life, then it is you who have elected Him! Words mean things; Doctrines lead to inescapable conclusions. "How can we come to a strict conclusion for "election" or "choice" when the scriptures clearly teach both?" Scrap your traditional doctrine and re-read the Word praying that God will give you fresh eyes. "To reconcile all of the scriptures "...elected means chosen...", by foreknowledge. (Rom 8:29)" This would lead us to believe that God loved us because we first loved Him. "John 3:16 'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.' By strict election this might as well read 'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever "He chose" shall not perish, but have eternal life." Who is saved other than those whom God has chosen? None! I did not understand the relavence of John 10:35 and Matt 4:7. Please explain. John |
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2 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | Pastor Glenn | 89188 | ||
John, You asked: "Who is saved other than those whom God has chosen? None!" You are so concerned about God’s sovereignty being overruled by man’s free will. I think you and I both agree that God is sovereign. Where we disagree is in the fact that since everyone is not saved, that some are outside of His sovereign will. You believe that it simply is not His will that “all” be saved. I want to show scripture that proves that it is not God's will that any should perish, but instead of imposing His will on them, He allows them to die in their sins. You said: "As you know elected means chosen, as in "God's chosen people"." By your reasoning all of God’s chosen people were saved. Why would Paul pray that Israel be saved if he believed in strict election. Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel[10:1 NU-Text reads [them.] ] is that they may be saved. They were indeed chosen a holy nation. So why were so many lost? The answer is that God refuses to force His sovereign will on anyone. Their individual hearts had problems. Jer 17 9"The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? 10I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings. Notice this scripture: Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord GOD, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live? It is critical that you see that it is not God’s sovereign will that any should perish. God said it again in a different way so there is no doubt: 32For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live!" Read more: Ezekiel 18 21"But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord GOD, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live? 24"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die. 25"Yet you say, "The way of the Lord is not fair.' Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 29Yet the house of Israel says, "The way of the Lord is not fair.' O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair? 30"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live!" Pastor Glenn |
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3 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89235 | ||
Thank You Pastor, I appreciate the fact that you do "really" read my posts and give thoughtful replies. You said "I want to show scripture that proves that it is not God's will that any should perish, but instead of imposing His will on them, He allows them to die in their sins." I'm happy you said that because it gives me a chance to clear up something. I do not believe that God imposes His will on those destined for Hell. Calvinists believe that, if left to follow the desire of their hearts, not one person would desire Christ! You said you believed in the depravity of fallen man. But, you really don't believe man is as hopeless as calvinists do. We believe that Rom 9 teaches that salvation is given according to God's mercy and that all whom he has mercy on are set free to love Him. This freedom always leads to the person freely, falling at the foot of the cross. "You said:"As you know elected means chosen, as in "God's chosen people"." By your reasoning all of God’s chosen people were saved. Why would Paul pray that Israel be saved if he believed in strict election." Paul prayed for Israel the same way we pray for our loved ones. We pray that God will save each one. Does our praying insure their salvation. No, it does'nt. Our prayers, however, may be the means by which God has ordained their calling to be manifested. God has not only ordained the ends but also the means by which the ends are established. He is Lord of all! Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord GOD, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live? A judge may take no pleasure in the execution of a sentence upon the guilty one, but if failed to satisfy justice...He would be unjust himself. Ezekial 18 does not address election. God has also given us the Ten Commandments. How many people do you know have been saved by keeping them? No one. Christ alone, has kept the Law to perfection, and He did so on behalf of His people; the ones whom the Father has given Him. God Bless, John |
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4 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | Pastor Glenn | 89241 | ||
John, My point was that it is God's will that "all" be saved and Ezekiel 18 proves that point. I said: "Where we disagree is in the fact that since everyone is not saved, that some are outside of His sovereign will. You believe that it simply is not His will that “all” be saved. I want to show scripture that proves that it is not God's will that any should perish, but instead of imposing His will on them, He allows them to die in their sins." Now you said: "A judge may take no pleasure in the execution of a sentence upon the guilty one, but if failed to satisfy justice...He would be unjust himself. Ezekial 18 does not address election. God has also given us the Ten Commandments. How many people do you know have been saved by keeping them? No one. Christ alone, has kept the Law to perfection, and He did so on behalf of His people; the ones whom the Father has given Him." Again, my point was that it is God's will that "all" be saved. Think whatever else you will about election, but you must see that this scripture very clearly shows God's will that "all" should turn from there sins and be saved: 30"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live!" May God Bless you too, Pastor Glenn |
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5 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89254 | ||
Dear Pastor Glenn, There is an important arguement against the doctrine which says that, God wills that none should perish, but because of stubborn refusal to embrace Christ, many do perish. This arguement is that if man can resist and overcome all of God's efforts to persuade him to surrender to the love of Christ, then the willof God is shown to be weaker then that of man. Pastor you stated "Think whatever else you will about election, but you must see that this scripture very clearly shows God's will that "all" should turn from there sins and be saved:" Of course, the idea that the creature's will is able to resist and defeat His creator is not found in the Bible, but in "Frankenstien"! The passages from Ezekial which you have provided speak to God's decreetive will (That which He has commanded). This is the OT law which God ordained tobe a school-teacher. It was never a way to salvation that any fallen man was capable of obeying. It was meant to point man to the cross of Christ and salvation by grace alone through faith. The Bible is clear when it says in Isa 46:9,10 " Is 46:9,10 "Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure". Question: If it was God's good pleasure to save all men, and yet some perish, what are we to make of this passage from Isaiah? I believe the "free-willer" would respond that it was also God's good pleasure to permit man the freedom to resist God's will. But that does not solve anything, it just nuetralizes Isa 46:10 9,10. The problem with this is that nowhere in the Bible is free-will mentioned as an attribute of fallen man. The conflict of opinion ( as I see it) that exists between us arises from what does "will" mean when the Bible says God wills or does not "will" something. "Affirming the will of God to save all, while also affirming the unconditional election of some, implies that there are at least "two wills" in God, or two ways of willing. It implies that God decrees one state of affairs while also willing and teaching that a different state of affairs should come to pass. This distinction in the way God wills has been expressed in various ways throughout the centuries. It is not a new contrivance. For example, theologians have spoken of sovereign will and moral will, efficient will and permissive will, secret will and revealed will, will of decree and will of command, decretive will and preceptive will, voluntas signi (will of sign) and voluntas beneplaciti (will of good pleasure), etc...." ...To avoid all misconceptions it should be made clear at the outset that the fact that God wishes or wills that all people should be saved does not necessarily imply that all will respond to the gospel and be saved. We must certainly distinguish between what God would like to see happen and what he actually does will to happen, and both of these things can be spoken of as God's will. The question at issue is not whether all will be saved but whether God has made provision in Christ for the salvation of all, provided that they believe, and without limiting the potential scope of the death of Christ merely to those whom God knows will believe." (John Piper) If you are interested in reading Piper's article, "Are There Two Wills in God", it is at http://www.desiringgod.org/library/topics/doctrines_grace/2wills.html Thanks again brother, John |
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6 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89268 | ||
Greetings John! I know your going to hate me for this, but I can't resist! Here is a verse which says that God does not will anyone to perish: 2 Pet. 3:9 - "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." Where is there a verse which says that God does will some to perish? I keep hearing about these two 'wills' of God, but I have yet to see any Scripture verses which states this second will of God. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89278 | ||
Dear Tim, "I know your going to hate me for this, but I can't resist!" Au contraire, mon ami! I love you for bringing up the 2 Peter 3:9. Is it not the very word of God? Verse 9 is a beautiful jewel that should be treasured by all who are His. But to fully appreciate it's beauty, it must be observed in it's setting. Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation." For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. The following paragraphs are from "The Potter's Freedom" by James R. White "Immediately one sees that unlike such passages as Ephesians 1, Romans 8-9, or John 6, this passage is not speaking about salvation as its topic. The reference to "coming to repentance" in 3:9 is made in passing. The topic is the coming of Christ. In the last days mockers will question the validity of His prom- ise. Peter is explaining the reason why the coming of Christ has been delayed as long as it has. The day of the Lord, he says, will come like a thief, and it will come at God's own time. " "But the next thing that stands out upon the reading of the passage is the clear identification of the audience to which Peter is speaking. When speaking of the mockers he refers to them in the third person, as "them." But everywhere else he speaks directly to his audience as the "beloved" and "you." He speaks of how his audience should behave "in holy conduct and godliness," and says that they look for the day of the Lord. He includes himself in this group in verse 13, where "we are looking for a new heavens and a new earth." This is vitally important, for the assumption made by the Arminian is that when verse 9 says the Lord is "patient toward you" that this "you" refers to everyone. Likewise, then, when it says "not wishing for any to perish" but "all to come to repentance," it is assumed that the "any" and "all" refers to anyone at all of the human race. Yet, the context indicates that the audience is quite specific. In any other passage of Scripture the interpreter would would realize that we must decide who the "you" refer to and use this to limit the "any" and "all" of V.9 for some reason that simple and fundamental necessity is overlooked when this passage is cited ." Tim, since we have gone over this verse in depth before, but were unable to resolve our differences, I thought White may prove helpfull. God Bless, John |
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8 | When is an indefinite pronoun definite? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89302 | ||
Greetings John! I know you would never really hate me! :-) I have heard this interpretation before, but it doesn't make any sense for two reasons. 1) First of all, if the basis for the Lord's delay in coming is that He doesn't want any of the people to whom Peter is writing to perish, then what is the basis for the Lord's delay. The one's to whom Peter is writing are already saved! 2) Secondly, the pronoun 'you' is not the only pronoun used. Peter also uses 'any' and 'all'. Now, we have discussed 'all' before, but 'any' is an indefinite pronoun. It does to refer to 'all' people with out discrimination, hence the 'indefinite' part. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | When is an indefinite pronoun definite? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89303 | ||
Hi Tim, For the sake of His collective "beloved" present and future. Acts 2:39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." White, who is proficient in greek as well as English said "for the assumption made by the Arminian is that when verse 9 says the Lord is "patient toward you" that this "you" refers to everyone. Likewise, then, when it says "not wishing for any to perish" but "all to come to repentance," it is assumed that the "any" and "all" refers to anyone at all of the human race. Yet, the context indicates that the audience is quite specific. I agree with White, not because he is a scholar or a reformed baptist, but because my sense of english language usage is confirmed by his claim that context is the key to identifying who is "any" and "all". Naturally your free to disagree. But I believe you would be hard pressed to refute his conclusion. John |
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10 | When is an indefinite pronoun definite? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89323 | ||
Greetings John! Assuming your interpretation is accurate, why would it be permissible to make 'you' refer to all believers, past and future, but not permissible to make 'any' and 'all' refer to anyone and all individuals? What exactly is the contextual justification for this approach? It seems to me that you can't have it both ways. Either 'you' and 'any' simply refer to the original readers of the Epistle, or they can refer to a wider group. However, if they refer to a wider group, then you lose your justification for limiting 'any' and 'all'. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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11 | When is an indefinite pronoun definite? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89331 | ||
Dear Tim, Peter's topic (2nd Coming of Christ) is not meant for a small group in a particular place and time, but for the "invisible church" (all believers throughout the world and Throughout the ages. That is the context! These believers are the "beloved". Bro. John |
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