Results 1 - 8 of 8
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | Pastor Glenn | 89057 | ||
Hello John, Very interesting question. With this question you really get to the heart of the matter so I can't help jumping in. :o) I hold the first proposition: Despite being "dead in sin", "without hope", and "loving darkness rather than light" fallen man still has the ability to choose spiritual good (Christ). Supporting scriptures: John 3 19And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." Do men choose Christ? I say yes, but only after God calls us. I believe in the "day of visitation": Luke 19:44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation." 1 Peter 2:12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation. Based on these scriptures, I believe that all men are taken out of their depravity on the day of visitation to make a choice. This day is different for everyone: Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." For the one thief on the cross it was like a death bed confession. Many would like a death bed confession so that they may stay in their sin till the last minute. But Jesus warns us to be ready: 1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[3:10 NU-Text reads [laid bare ] (literally [found] ).] Mat 24 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[6] your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant (7) 45 "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48But if that evil servant says in his heart, "My master is delaying his coming,' [7] 49and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Why did Jesus warn us unless we have some choice in the matter? Pastor Glenn |
||||||
2 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89068 | ||
Dear Pastor Glenn, Obviously, although I read and considered the verses which you supplied, to adress each one would be a task that would require more time than I am able to spend. But I think many of them were in support of your theme of "day of visitation" or "calling". You stated "Do men choose Christ? I say yes, but only after God calls us. I believe in the "day of visitation". The first verses that came to mind were Romans 8:28-30. "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." Paul is saying that the ones which God calls are the ones that He justifies. If we take Paul literally (as I think we should in this case) he is saying that all who are called are saved! But, I would prefer to keep a narrow focus on my original question, if possible, and not get myself side-tracked into election or other like issues. Thanks Pastor, John |
||||||
3 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | Pastor Glenn | 89076 | ||
Hello again John, You said: "Paul is saying that the ones which God calls are the ones that He justifies. If we take Paul literally (as I think we should in this case) he is saying that all who are called are saved!" You came to an incomplete conclusion because you left out a piece of the scripture: "...those whom He foreknew, He also predestined ... and these whom He predestined, He also called ..." Notice the order of Romans 8:28-30: 1. He foreknew 2. He also predestined 3. He also called 4. He also justified 5. He also glorified "But, I would prefer to keep a narrow focus on my original question, if possible, and not get myself side-tracked into election or other like issues." No, it is not possible to "not get myself side-tracked into election" when you bring this scripture into the discussion. Foreknowledge (1) and predestination (2) are what Paul is building on here. So I would rewrite your conclusion as: "Paul is saying that the ones which God foreknew (1) are the ones that He justifies (4). If we take Paul literally (as I think we should in this case) he is saying that all who "He foreknew" are saved!" I believe in election by foreknowledge Pastor Glenn |
||||||
4 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89082 | ||
Pastor, You said: "I believe in election by foreknowledge" Why? If "foreknew" simply means that... God knew ahead of time who would choose Him, that means we would have elected God. But the Bible says, we are His elect. Mark 13:27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect. As you know elected means chosen, as in "God's chosen people". John |
||||||
5 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89088 | ||
Greetings John! Where exactly is 'election' defined in Scripture? The reason I ask is that the word group 'elect', 'election', ect..., does not occur that frequently in Scripture. Further, nowhere does Scripture actually define the 'who', 'what, or 'how' of election. So, most of what is taught about it is assumption. It would be fun to go through Scripture and see what it actually says about election. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
6 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | John Reformed | 89090 | ||
Sorry Tim, For the time being I would prefer to focus on human inability. It is all to easy to wander all over the map and lose track of what the destination was at the outstart. Perhaps later. Bro. John |
||||||
7 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | Morant61 | 89096 | ||
Greetings John! Well, if you want to stick to the original point, I'm still waiting for that verse that says, 'Christ did not die for all men'! ;-) If I might add a personal note, doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that all the verses which I provided which say that Christ died for all cannot be Biblically true, but the statement that 'regeneration precedes faith' is Biblically true even though not one verse actually says that? In all honesty, this is the one thing I have found disappointing about this whole debate. I have made statements like 'Christ died for all men' and have actually provided Scriptures which say exactly what I said, but I'm wrong! ;-) But, the assumptions of Calvinism are Biblical truth, even though not one Scripture actually states these assumptions! :-( How does one come to a conclusion in such a debate? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
8 | Which proposition is scriptural? | John 3:16 | Parable | 89116 | ||
I believe that Dr. Gregory Boyd has a pretty good answer to this debate in his book "Satan and the Problem of Evil: Constructing a Trinitarian Warfare Theodicy". Boyd's theodicy is founded upon the Bible and is derived from a comprehensive understanding of scripture, sound reasoning, practical experience and objective examination of many philosophical attempts to explain the problem of evil in a world created by a holy, loving and all-powerful God. For those who seek a cogent, compelling, logical and practical treatment of the biblical worldview, this book is a "must-read". |
||||||