Results 1 - 5 of 5
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | JibbyJee | 88221 | ||
Greetings gracefull! As you have probably ascertained, I am a Calvinist (aka Reformed) in my theology. I want to thank my friend Tim for his brief and for the most part accurate synopsis of the differences between the two. The grand issue between the two sides is the issue of "free will". Now, respectfully, I must tell you that by reading your post I have gathered that you are already biased against Reformed theology. Have you studied this issue before, using the Bible, or have you been influenced by other people's opinions? I ask that because it seems like you already have some faulty preconceptions about what Calvinist's (that's me) believe. Please allow me to elaborate: You said: "Calvinist believe only certain ones are called and the rest were born without any hope of salvation. Choice is a nonissue." I will try to explain in as simple terms as I can what we really believe the Bible teaches. Please remember that we don't believe anything that we can't prove exegetically from the Bible. So please listen with an open heart and mind to what our interpretation of the Bible says even if you disagree with it. Okay. Looking at the above quote that you gave, I want you to stop for a few seconds and think about what you've said. "without any hope of salvation". Is this a truly Biblical statement? What I mean is-and this is vitally important--does God OWE them salvation (Rom. 6:23)??? Your words make man out to be an innocent victim of an unjust God! Don't you realize that all men, you and I included, are at enmity with God prior to being saved (Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:15-16) nor can we desire to be saved in our sinful (natural) condition (1 Cor. 2:14, Rom. 9:16; John 1:13; John 3:5-8). Don't you understand that NO ONE deserves to be saved?? I hope you will honestly consider those facts in light of your statement. The humble heart does not say "well if God didn't predestinate every man to salvation then He's not fair", but it DOES say "Lord!! Why did you save me, a wretched sinner??" Let us not forget for a moment that had God not regenerated our hearts so that we could believe (Titus 3:5) we, too, would still be in our sins and remain His enemy. And we wouldn't want it any other way because of our sin nature (Romans 1). The ONLY people who desire to know God and choose Him are those whom He has called according to His divine will and purpose. In short, Calvinists DO believe we have a choice to make, however, where we differ from Arminians is on how that choice comes to fruition. In Christ, Jibbs |
||||||
2 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | gracefull | 88256 | ||
Hello Jibbs, You asked, "Your words make man out to be an innocent victim of an unjust God! Don't you realize that all men, you and I included, are at enmity with God prior to being saved (Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:15-16) nor can we desire to be saved in our sinful (natural) condition (1 Cor. 2:14, Rom. 9:16; John 1:13; John 3:5-8). Don't you understand that NO ONE deserves to be saved??" Sinful man is born without hope of attaining eternal life, condemned, but through Jesus Christ we all have been provided a way of escape! My statement does not indicate a lack of awareness of fallen man's deserved destiny of hell, but rather my faith in His provision of eternal life, and my lack of understanding how one could believe Jesus Christ's blood is not available anyone who believes and accepts Him as saviour. Ephesians 2:11-13 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. No, man is not an innocent victim of an unjust God. But the God I know will not offer salvation ot one and not to another. He will condemn the ones who reject Jesus to eternal punishment but not without opportunity to repent. To give one opportunity and not all is unjust. "In short, Calvinists DO believe we have a choice to make, however, where we differ from Arminians is on how that choice comes to fruition." "Let us not forget for a moment that had God not regenerated our hearts so that we could believe (Titus 3:5) we, too, would still be in our sins and remain His enemy." 4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for MANKIND appeared, 5 He saved us,not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. I hear..God SO LOVED mankind...He alone in His mercy and grace provided a saviour, Jesus Christ..that through faith in HIM, Jesus Christ, we are enabled to be regenerated and renewed by the Holy Spirit. You seem to be saying we believe after this renewal..however I believe we are renewed or regenerated/born again after we BELIEVE and ACCEPT Jesus. Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "REPENT, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 2 is a continuation of the same topic, and chapter one does not say God does not seek man, it says man does not seek God. I must Go...time is up. Purhaps we can continue this later. God bless |
||||||
3 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | JibbyJee | 88270 | ||
Dear gracefull: Thank you for your response. I really appreciate the Bible verses and not just mere opinion in support of your theology, even if I disagree with your interpretation in the context of all of Scripture. We could continue to discuss this issue (which is hard to do considering it hits on soooo many other side-issues and makes us prone to distraction) but first I want to pinpoint one aspect of your last post. This one sentence, I believe, hits the nail on the head. Here it is: "You seem to be saying we believe after this renewal..however I believe we are renewed or regenerated/born again after we BELIEVE and ACCEPT Jesus." Herein we have a conundrum. I believe the Bible clearly teaches about our inability to come to God on our own. We simply can't do it (John 6:65). He must first give us the gift of faith (Eph 2:8-9). Natural man doesn't even understand he NEEDS a savior, because he cannot see himself for who he really is (Rom. 3:10-11; 1 Cor. 2:14). Keep in mind that because of this depravity and rejection of God, man is guilty and the sin deserves to be punished in order for God to remain just. With these things in mind, please consider why I believe God doesn't merely stop at making salvation "possible" for everyone, but actually SAVES all whom He chooses to save(Rom. 9:15). Salvation is dependent upon nothing else but the mercy of God (Rom. 9:11-16) who works all things to guarantee not one of His chosen people will be lost (Eph. 1:11; Eph. 3:11-12; Rom. 8:28-30; John 10:28-29). No one is suddenly condemned because they "reject" the Gospel, but rather they are under condemnation whether they hear it or not, let alone reject it (John 3:18)! The Gospel SAVES, it does not CONDEMN!!! Please consider this example I've posted before and give me your answer. Imagine you are standing before the throne of God standing next to a man who is not a follower of Christ. What is it that differentiates the two of you? If God did for the man next to you everything that He did to save you, then the only difference is that you believed. But here's the kicker--WHAT WAS IN YOU THAT MADE YOU BELIEVE, THAT THE GUY NEXT TO YOU WAS LACKING? That IS the question we all must answer before our Holy Lord. In Christ, Jibbs |
||||||
4 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | gracefull | 88368 | ||
Hi Jibbs...I can't address this in depth. Purhps over the weekend I can come back. But I must share this based on your 'example'. The question you ask is what is different about me and the one next to me? He chose to remain in darkness when shown light. I chose to run to the light. God's MERCY AND GRACE was extended to both of us. God bless |
||||||
5 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | JibbyJee | 88516 | ||
Hi gracefull! Hope you had a safe 4th! I tried my best to blow the tips of my fingers off! I won't be lighting firecrackers off in my hands anymore, that's for sure! Thank you for answering the question honestly, and not dodging the issue like many people seem to do. The doctrine of the sovereignty of God is not one that is popular amongst modern Christians, and for the most part, I believe this stems from a lack of correct Biblical understanding of God and from prevelant erroneous teaching within the church itself. Also, I think the two are in a vicious cycle that continuosly feed each other through the generations. Back to the discussion itself, I want to first off recommend a book for your consideration on this issue. CHOSEN BY GOD by RC Sproul is an outstanding book on the nature of salvation. Dr. Sproul does a much better explaining things with clarity and humility than I could ever hope to do. But nevertheless, I will continue to offer my beliefs for you to consider in regard to Scripture. 1. Do you think your faith is something that you muster up within yourself, or a gift given to you by God? (1 Cor. 2:14; Rom. 8:5-7; Eph. 2:8-9) The Bible frequently shows us that all one has to do to be saved is to believe in God and the One he has sent. And I would totally agree. But in none of those verses does it tell us HOW the belief came about within us. The Bible does say that we are enemies of God (Gen. 6:5; Rom. 5:10; Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:15-16; Col. 1:21; James 4:4) before being saved. So I still don't understand how you can claim that your CHOICE is the difference between you and the next guy. Prior to regeneration, what virtue was in you but not in the unbelieving one? Basically, you are saying "All that guy has to do is believe. Simple as that". Now the "believe" part I agree with. But it's not that simple. Jesus elaborates on this point. Let's take a closer look: Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. Please compare this to salvation (indeed it is directly connected already) and the context of our discussion. Notice Jesus didn't say "He that is of God hears the words of God. If you want to be of God, then all you have to do is hear." That would be putting the cart before the horse. Jesus simply tells it like it is. Those who are of God (regenerated) will hear Him and those who aren't won't. So how does this connect to our discussion? I believe regeneration precedes faith. God must give each of us "ears to hear" so to speak BEFORE we can believe. The example of John 8:47 supports this, as does John 6:65 and many other verses. So we're back to square one. Does God give everyone ears to hear? If so, then what was Jesus talking about in John 8:47? If not, then could it be that ALL of salvation is to the glory of God and NONE of it belongs to man? In Christ, JibbyJee |
||||||