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NASB | 1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 1 John 2:2 And He [that same Jesus] is the propitiation for our sins [the atoning sacrifice that holds back the wrath of God that would otherwise be directed at us because of our sinful nature--our worldliness, our lifestyle]; and not for ours alone, but also for [the sins of all believers throughout] the whole world. |
Subject: Receive? |
Bible Note: Greetings John! Thanks for sharing some of your testimony with me. Even if we never see some issues the same, we are still brothers in Christ. :-) Now, on to the questions from your previous post! You wrote: "As you can see the scriptures give no hope to the the one who has never heard the Gospel. Of what benefit is free will to one whose only desire is evil continually? If God had dedesired the salvation of all men, why have_ all men_ not had the opportunity to be saved? If arminians cannot offer scriptual answers to questions such as these, they show the bankruptcy of "Free will choice in salvation"." The second question is based on an assumption. The assumption is made that not all men have had an opportunity, but Scripture never says that all men have not had an opportunity. Even Rom. 3, which you quoted from, says of the Word which brings faith in v. 18, "But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: ‘‘Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world."" Further, we have a clear statement in Scripture that God does desire all to come to repentance and that He desires to have mercy on all. The first question hinges on a Calvinistic understanding of Total Depravity. Arminians believe in Total Depravity, we just don't make the jump that 'dead' in sin means unable to respond. For instance, you quoted Rom. 3:10, and from that you make the assumption that people are unable to seek the Lord. However, both the Old and New Testaments speak of people seeking the Lord. Consider the following: Rom. 3:10 is quoting from Ps. 14:2. The word translated 'seek' is 'darash'. It is used in the sense of seeking in prayer, inquiring, or holding responsible. It is used 164 times in the Old Testament. The following are just some examples of people who did 'darash' the Lord. a) Gen. 25:22 - "And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD." b) Ex. 18:15 - "And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God:" d) 2 Chron. 15:12 - "And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;" e) 2 Chron. 17:3 - "And the LORD was with Jehoshaphat, because he walked in the first ways of his father David, and sought not unto Baalim; 4But sought to the LORD God of his father, and walked in his commandments, and not after the doings of Israel." f) 2 Chron. 22:9 - "And he sought Ahaziah: and they caught him, (for he was hid in Samaria,) and brought him to Jehu: and when they had slain him, they buried him: Because, said they, he is the son of Jehoshaphat, who sought the LORD with all his heart. So the house of Ahaziah had no power to keep still the kingdom." g) 2 Chron. 26:5 - "And he sought God in the days of Zechariah, who had understanding in the visions of God: and as long as he sought the LORD, God made him to prosper." h) Psalm 24:6 - "This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah." i) Psalm 77:2 - "In the day of my trouble I sought the Lord: my sore ran in the night, and ceased not: my soul refused to be comforted." We could go on, but these should suffice. So, it is obvious from the verses listed here that people do indeed and can seek God. So, what was Ps. 14:2 saying? It was a prayer. In the prayers of the Psalms, people speak from their feelings and their experiences. In David’s case, he felt that he was living in a generation of people who did not seek God. But, this verse cannot be used for a proof text that it is impossible for people to seek God. What about Rom. 3:10? Paul is simply establishing that all men are sinful. In Rom. 1, he establishes that pagans are sinful. In Rom. 2, he establishes that Jews are sinful, even though they have the Law. In Rom. 3, he concludes that all men are sinful; therefore, obedience to the Law will not save us - we must have faith in Christ. But, even Paul speaks of all men seeking God in Acts 17:27, "God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us." And James says in Acts 15:17, "that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things’" So, to answer your first question, total depravity does not mean that men are incapable of seeking God. I would describe it this way: 1) God seeks us first! 2) He sends His Spirit to convict and to draw all men. 3) Thus, all have the opportunity and the means to come to Him, if they accept the gift of salvation. I’m sure you are familiar with the verses I would use on each of these points! Well, this is running long! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |