Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did Christ die for the world? | 1 John 2:2 | Morant61 | 6540 | ||
Greetings Y'all: There have been several threads deaing with the extent of the atonment. Rather than rehasing all of those discussions, I would like to propose something different. A limited discussion on 1 John 2:2. Personally, I think the best way to debate an issue like this is to deal with a limited number of verses. Since I proposed this, I will start first. Here is my take on 1 John 2:2. The question concerning the extent of the atonement is simply this: Did Christ atone for all or only the elect? Many verses, which seem to indicate that Christ died for all, can be interpreted in such a way as to limit the extent of the word 'all.' However, 1 John 2:2 seems to be perfectly clear. There is a contrast here between believers (our sins) and unbelievers (the whole world). Christ is the propitation for all sin. Now, what does it mean that Christ is the propitation for all sin? The word 'hilasmos' is only used twice in the New Testament (Here and in 1 John 4:10). It signifies a turning a way of God's wrath by an offering. The entire ministry of Christ is signified by this word in 1 John 4:10. The gift of salvation in Romans 3:25 is described using a related word 'hilasterion.' This same word ('hilasterion') is used in Heb. 2:17 to refer to the priestly ministry of Christ. In my opinion, this verse is decisive. Christ died for the sins of everyone. The Cross is the one and only act of atonement for all men and for all sin. I don't see anyway, in light of this verse, that one can argue that Christ only died for the elect. p.s. - A note for all those who respond. Unless one is dealing with heresy, I view debate as an opportunity to sharpen our understanding of Scripture. By interacting with one another, we can see how others view Scripture, consider other points of view, and sharpen our ability to deal with objections to our viewpoints. We may never agree with each other, but I can live with that! God Bless, Tim Moran |
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2 | Did Christ die for the world? | 1 John 2:2 | Ray | 6599 | ||
Hi Tim, I, too, like the idea of narrowing down a discussion. I want to compare the verses that you mention here. You mentioned for 1Jn 2:2 that there was a contrast, but I don't see that. I see from 1John that we are all sinners. The Gospel of John talks about the world. Jn.1:9, "There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through (Him), and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in (His) name. (Parenthesis mine for comparison) This passage says that He enlightens every man; He came for the whole world. The world didn't know Him; does it yet? Those who were His own did not recieve Him; do they yet? Certainly not everybody. Verse sixteen says, "For of (His) fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace." Jesus has explained Him. 1Jn 2:2, And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He (Himself) is the propitiation for our sins; Hebrews 2:17, "Therefore He had to be made like His brethren in all things, that He might become a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to (God), to make propitiation for the sins of the people. Hebrews 3:10 says, "And they did not know (My) ways." He died for those who know (Him), and believe in (Him), and know (His) word, who know Him as the (Light) of the world. God will always have His remnant of (His) people. |
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3 | Did Christ die for the world? | 1 John 2:2 | Morant61 | 6602 | ||
Greetings Ray! I whole heartedly agree with you that we are all sinners. The comparison that I see in 1 John 2:2 is a comparison that explains the extent of the atonement. Writing to Christians, John says that Christ is the atoning sacrifice for their sins (NIV). We all would agree with that statement. However, he goes beyond that and says that Christ is more, He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. It was late while I was reading your response, so I'm not sure that I was clear on what you were saying. Would you please summarize your point for me? Thanks, and God Bless, Tim Moran |
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4 | Did Christ die for the world? | 1 John 2:2 | Ray | 6613 | ||
Hi Tim, I agree with Ezekiel in the tree next door. Christ died for the whole world but it requires faith and obedience on our part. But He shows us His favor, its nothing that is due to us for any work that we do. Ezekiel chose the Roman 3:25 scripture dealing with propitiation. Here we see also, verse23, "for *all have sinned* and fall short of the glory of God." But the propitiation was to demonstrate His righteousness, "so that (He) might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." Romans 4:4, "Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as to what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in (Him) who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness." Compare this Roman passage with John. Romans 3:29b, "Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumsised through faith is one. Do we nullify the Law through faith?...But to the one who does not work, but believes in (Him) who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness." John 3:15, "...so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in (Him) shall not perish, but have eternal life." 1John 4:14 "We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son into the world to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that (Jesus) is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God."...verse17,"because as (He) is, so also are we in this world." 1John 5:5,"Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that (Jesus) is the Son of God?"...verse 20,"...so that we may know (Him) who is true...This is the true God and eternal life." So what am I saying, and what do I see these scriptures as saying? I'm saying with 1John 3:3, "And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as (He) is pure." I say with 1 John 2:14 that if we have the word of (God) in us, we can overcome the evil one. Verse15, "Do not love the world nor the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." What I'm saying Tim, is that God is righteous, and the whole world is not going to know (Him) or listen to us. 1John 4:6 But it all depends on the spirit of God. 1John 4:2,6,13 God loves the world, but He hates the sins of the world. Compare John 3:17 with 1John 2:15-17. |
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