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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Election to Salvation or of Purpose? | 1 John 2:2 | kalos | 6590 | ||
Is election unconditional? Morant61: I sincerely appreciate your splendid attitude, the fact that your question is marked by neither belligerence nor an adversarial tone. I mean what I say: in the midst of the verbal warfare on this Forum, your courtesy is refreshing. I think narrowing the focus of one posting is an excellent idea. Therefore, I would like to focus on your point number 6): "Plus: I can't come up with something to make the atonement conditional upon something other than God. It isn't conditional, it is an accomplished fact that we can choose to accept or reject. " I preface my remarks by saying: 1) I reply with all respect. 2) Neither Calvanism nor Arminianism fits the definition of heresy. 3) I am not a hyper-Calvinist. I merely believe in the *Bible doctrine of Election*. 4) It is not my intention to put you down or insult you. Regarding your point 6) "It isn't conditional...", may I say: Election, by definition, is unconditional. If it were conditional, then it would not be election. "Election is the act of God whereby in eternity past He chose those who will be saved. *Election is unconditional*, because it does not depend on anything outside of God, such as good works or foreseen faith (Romans 9:16). This doctrine is repeatedly taught in the Bible, and is also demanded by our knowledge of God" (www.gty.org/IssuesandAnswers/archive/). See this website for more information on the Bible doctrine of election. |
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2 | Election to Salvation or of Purpose? | 1 John 2:2 | Morant61 | 6604 | ||
Greetings JVHO212! Thank you for the kind words! I always enjoy reading your posts. I noticed that you quoted from John MacArthur. You might be surprised to find out that he is one of my favorite preachers (and me an Arminian!!!). A few years back, I had the chance to attend a pastor's conference and breakfast with Dr. MacArthur in Lima, OH. I'm breaking my own rule here, by getting away from 1 John 2:2 on this thread, but here goes. Allow me to define a few terms from my perspective in order to answer your question. I have been heavily influenced by the writings of Robert Shank ('Life in the Son' and 'Elect in the Son'.) Hence, my understanding of election is that it is primarily corporate and only secondarily inidvidual. The cross is the one electing act of God in history. In the cross, all men find atonement (objectively). However, they only experience atonement (subjectively) in Christ. When someone responds to the gift of salvation, it is at that point that they become part of the Elect body. Predestination refers to the circumstances of election (adoption in Eph.1 and the image of Christ in Rom. 8) and not to the eternal destiny of individuals. So my short answer would be: The atonement is unconditional, but election is conditioned upon acceptance of the atonement. The best Scripture for this view would be 2 Cor. 5:18 "18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" Note that v. 19 says that Christ was reconciling he world to Himself (unlimited atonement), but v. 20 calls for men to be reconciled to God (conditional election). The result is that 'in Him,' we become the righteousness of Christ. I look forward to your response. I love debate, not for arguments sake, but for the opportunity to sharpen my faith. It is through the questions and challenges of others that I am forced to examine my beliefs (I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong.) When you reach the point that you can explain your view in a logical and understandable manner to someone who disagrees with you, then you have begun to understand the subject. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran p.s. - Just call me Tim! |
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