Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did Christ die for the world? | 1 John 2:2 | Morant61 | 6540 | ||
Greetings Y'all: There have been several threads deaing with the extent of the atonment. Rather than rehasing all of those discussions, I would like to propose something different. A limited discussion on 1 John 2:2. Personally, I think the best way to debate an issue like this is to deal with a limited number of verses. Since I proposed this, I will start first. Here is my take on 1 John 2:2. The question concerning the extent of the atonement is simply this: Did Christ atone for all or only the elect? Many verses, which seem to indicate that Christ died for all, can be interpreted in such a way as to limit the extent of the word 'all.' However, 1 John 2:2 seems to be perfectly clear. There is a contrast here between believers (our sins) and unbelievers (the whole world). Christ is the propitation for all sin. Now, what does it mean that Christ is the propitation for all sin? The word 'hilasmos' is only used twice in the New Testament (Here and in 1 John 4:10). It signifies a turning a way of God's wrath by an offering. The entire ministry of Christ is signified by this word in 1 John 4:10. The gift of salvation in Romans 3:25 is described using a related word 'hilasterion.' This same word ('hilasterion') is used in Heb. 2:17 to refer to the priestly ministry of Christ. In my opinion, this verse is decisive. Christ died for the sins of everyone. The Cross is the one and only act of atonement for all men and for all sin. I don't see anyway, in light of this verse, that one can argue that Christ only died for the elect. p.s. - A note for all those who respond. Unless one is dealing with heresy, I view debate as an opportunity to sharpen our understanding of Scripture. By interacting with one another, we can see how others view Scripture, consider other points of view, and sharpen our ability to deal with objections to our viewpoints. We may never agree with each other, but I can live with that! God Bless, Tim Moran |
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2 | Did Christ die for the world? | 1 John 2:2 | Makarios | 6751 | ||
Tim, I agree with this premise and applaud you for this approach to the discussion of exactly whose sins where paid for by Christ's Blood on the cross. This question, and my answer to this question is the very basis for my belief on this subject and all other topics that are related to this topic.1 John 2:2 states that He is the propitiation for not only the sins of the people of whom John was writing to, but also for those (sins) of the whole world. In my line of thinking, this verse makes it clear that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world on the cross. Ryrie's NASB Expanded Study Bible comments concerning this verse, "propitiation equals satisfaction. Christ is the only offering that satisfied God concerning sin (cf. Romans 3:25). Christ died for the sins of the whole world, the entire human race." In Zondervan's NASB Study Bible, 1 John 2:2's commentary reads as follows: "Forgiveness through Christ's atoning sacrifice is not limited to one particular group only; it has worldwide application (see John 1:29). It must, however, be received by faith (see John 3:16). Thus this verse does not teach universalism (that all people ultimately will be saved), but that God is an impartial God."Nelson's NKJV Study Bible comments concerning 1 John 2:2, "The sacrifice of Jesus' sinless life is so effective that it can supply forgiveness for the whole world (see 2 Cor. 5:14,15,19; Heb. 2:9). Christ's death is sufficient for all, but efficient only for those who believe in Christ. Not everyone will be saved, but Jesus offers salvation to all (see Rev. 22:17)." | ||||||
3 | When is all not all? | 1 John 2:2 | Morant61 | 6757 | ||
Greetings Nolan! Thanks for the input! As I had discussed with Othodoxy, I believe that invidiual verses must be dealt with in our theology and doctrine. This verse just cannot be made to fit a doctrine of a limited atonement (in my opinion.) However, it is not just this verse but a clear pattern of Scripture as well that Christ both atoned for the sins of the world and wills that all men be saved (hence the offer of salvation to all is real.) Consider the following verses of Scripture: 1) Concerning the extent of the atonement: a) 2 Cor. 5:19 - "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. " b) John 3:16-17 - "‘‘For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." c) John 12:32 - "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” d) John 6:33 and 51 - "For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” ..."I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” e) Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." f) 1 John 4:14 - "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world." g) 1 Timothy 2:6 - "who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time." 2) Concerning the will of Christ to save all: a) 1 Timothy 2:4 - "who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." b) 2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." c) Romans 11:32 - " For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." I believe that all of these verses demonstrate the love of God, in that He died for all and res all to be reconciled to Him. The tragedy is that so many fail to respond to the grace of God. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | When is all not all? | 1 John 2:2 | Makarios | 6805 | ||
Dear brother Tim, I am in exact agreement! Yes, these verses demonstrate the love of God, how He holds out His hand to all humanity, even though He sovereignly knows who will respond and who will not. And yes, that is the worst tragedy of all- that many will be lost! I am willing to only view the verses in which you have stated (which is Ok with me!), since you originally intended to limit the scope of verses as to focus on this single concept.. But I could also suggest Luke 19:10, John 1:29, John 4:42, 1 Timothy 4:10, Hebrews 2:9 and Romans 5:18, even though we both know that there are plenty of verses that merely say 'friends' or 'many people' or 'the church'- which would seem to support limited atonement. So the question that we come to, since it is evident that there are verses that seem to speak of both limited and unlimited atonement, is: Is there any way to reconcile the two? Is there any way to read both 'sets' of verses in a harmonius way without sounding contradicting? I believe that seemingly restrictive references can be logically fit into an unlimited scenario much more easily than universal references can be made to fit into a limited scenario. No one denies that Christ died for God's 'sheep' and His 'people'. It is only refuted that Christ died exclusively for them. Certainly if Christ died for the whole of humanity, there is no logical problem in saying that He died for a specific part of the whole.I think that I should stop right there- to avoid 'raising the ire' of those who think differently on this issue. I have already grossly mishandled this issue once (Romans 5:6 thread), and I do not want to ruin your thread and your discussion.. :-)Thanks again dear Brother in Christ!Nolan Keck | ||||||
5 | When is all not all? | 1 John 2:2 | Morant61 | 6808 | ||
Greetings Nolan! Everyone is more than welcome to participate! In Christ, Tim Moran |
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