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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Was it complete? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 51260 | ||
Greetings Let It Rain! Thanks for joining in the discussion and welcome to the forum! What Christ did on our behalf was definitely a 'work'. I love both of the passages you quoted from Paul. They both speak of what it means to 'be in Christ' as a believer. But, neither of them teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation. Just to make sure we both understand where I am coming from, my position is that baptism is commanded in Scripture and is important - but, that baptism does not play any part in saving us. Our salvation is accomplished 'by grace through faith' alone - Eph. 2:8-9. The importance of this topic is simple. Was Christ's death of the Cross sufficient to save, or do I need to 'do' something else in order to be saved? The clear teaching of Scripture is that I cannot be saved by 'works' of any kind, but that after I am saved I am called to 'do' good works. The difference is simple - 'works' in Scripture are a result of salvation, not the cause of salvation. Now, on to Romans 6. The context is one of sanctification. How can believers, who are in Christ, continue to sin? To drive this point home, Paul appeals to the meaning of baptism. Now, is Paul talking about water baptism or spiritual baptism? Opinion in split on this issue and nothing in the text mandates either view. But, even assuming that water baptism is the subject of the passage, notice that the passages never once says that baptism saves or is necessary for salvation. What does Rom. 6 say? It refers to believers as having been united with Christ, crucified, and raised with Him. Did we literally die? Were we actually buried? Were we hanging on the cross? Of course we weren't. But, in Christ, we were. He was hanging on the cross on our behalf. He died in our place. He raises us up and makes us new creations. But, it is not baptism which accomplishes these things, it is the death of Christ. Baptism is a cermonial act which testifies symbolically to the spiritual realities accompished in our lives by faith. The problem with baptismal regeneration is that it turns this beautiful testimony into a 'work' which is necessary to 'do' in order to earn salvation. Instead of pointing to what Christ has done for us, baptismal regeneration points to what we have done to 'obey'. Concerning Gal. 2, baptism is never mentioned in any fashion. Further, read the whole chapter. Paul stresses over and over again that no one can attain rightousness through obedience to the Law. Baptismal regeneration replaces the old Law with a new Law, but ignores faith. Notice the number of times that 'faith' is mentioned in Gal. 2. Here is a key verse: "know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified." - Gal. 2:16 Justification comes through faith in Christ, not through anything that we 'do'. And of course, the clincher is Jesus' own words when He was asked what we must do to do the works which God requires. He said: "Jesus answered, ‘‘The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”" - John 6:29. If there were ceremonies or rituals that we must do in addition to simply having faith, then Jesus gave a very imcomplete answer. Surely, if baptism were necessary for salvation, He would have said to 'believe and be baptized'. The same thing occurs when the jailer asked Paul and Silas what he MUST DO to be saved. What was Paul's response? "They replied, ‘‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”" - Acts 16:31. No mention is made here of needing to be baptized to be saved. Baptism isn't mentioned until after they are saved - then and only then, the jailer is baptized. I went long on this response, but I wanted to be clear. Again, welcome to the forum! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Was it complete? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 51330 | ||
Tim, I wonder if it is accurate to say that baptism is a work that we do. Rather, I think it is something that Christ does to us through his body the Church. Who ever baptised him or her self? If you look at baptism as a grace filled encounter with Christ in and through his Church it seems much less a work of man than a work of Christ. The definition of a scarament I learned as a child was that it was "an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace." I have never thought of baptism or any other sacrament as something we do for or by ourselves, but rather something that Jesus does for us. Emmaus |
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3 | Was it complete? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 51331 | ||
Greetings Emmaus! We have chatted for awhile! It's good to hear from you brother! The definition I had learned was that baptism is: "An outward sign of an inward grace." Of course, the difference in our traditions is that mine does not believe that baptism brings grace, but reflects the grace already wrought through faith. Concerning works though, I would classify anything that someone has to 'do' in order to receive salvation as a 'work', which Eph. 2:8-9 specifically denies can save us. Well, I've got to get to bed! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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