Subject: need for a bible-anyone |
Bible Note: You wrote: So the Church of Christ's solution to not being identified as a "part" of Christianity is suggesting that they encompass the whole of Christianity. You still have the same "invisible/visible church" issue within the Churches of Christ, however. You are not a member of a Church of Christ congregation in the city where I live, but rather in a Church of Christ congregation where you live. If the Church of Christ where I live is the true church, how can it also be where you live? One needs to understand the universal church and the local church. The universal church is the whole body of believers, canvassing the entire globe. Its only officer is Jesus Christ. (Eph 1:22-23) No other organizational structure to be found in the universal church. The local church is just that, local. Jesus is also the head of the each local congregation (Eph 1:22-23; Rev 3:19). Elders and deacons are offices for the local congregations (Acts 14:23, 1 Pet 5:2 – how would elders and deacons fulfill this command if at a universal level?) There is no provision anywhere in Scripture for an organizational structure under Christ on earth. You say rightly that I am not a member of the congregation that meets in your city because I do not live there. If I were, I could ask to place membership with that local group of Christians doing God’s will, obeying His commands and still be right with God. Christ is the head of the Universal church, He will determine who is and isn’t a faithful Christian. Each local congregation will have to determine whether someone may place membership or not (Acts 9:19-31). Becoming a Christian does not grant me automatic membership into each local congregation, the opposite is also true; being withdrawn from does not automatically exclude me either (3 John 9-10). Basically, if all the Bible has said concerning the church only applies to the church universal, we could not abide by God’s commands (1 Cor 5:1-5 “when you are assembled” – only done locally, Heb 10:25 “not forsaking our own assembling together” - only done locally, etc). There are many points to be made concerning the differences, but this will suffice for now. You wrote: Interesting that you compare the church of the Lord Jesus to a game that consists entirely of rules, as if that is all the church is. Can we be real? You completely missed the point or chose to miss it. Obviously the church is not a game nor does it consist entirely of rules! The point is: it is ridiculous to claim the church we read in the NT is “new” because you believe it is new to this age and time. Take note: “the Word of God is the seed of the kingdom (Luke 8:11; Matthew 13:18-23). It is also affirmed that this Word of God is incorruptible and abides forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). In addition, seed always produces after its kind (Genesis 1:11-12). When the apostles planted the seed of the kingdom in the First Century, churches of Christ resulted (Acts 2:47; 1 Corinthians 1:2; Romans 16:16). Seeing that we have the same seed today, when we simply preach the same gospel, churches of Christ will be produced today as well. It should be observed that to get something else, some other seed must be planted. To get the Mormon church, one must plant the book of Mormon. To get the Catholic church, a catechism is needed. For Jehovah Witnesses, the writings of the Watchtower Society, for Muslims, the Koran must be preached, and so on.” You wrote: Does this quote mean that you do indeed believe the church disappeared off the face of the earth between the first century and it's "restoration" by the likes of Stone and Campbell? Please answer directly. We can take it. And if so, can you point out exactly when it vanished without a trace? No, I don’t believe the church disappeared off the face of the earth. “God assured us that this kingdom to be established ‘will never be destroyed…but it will itself endure forever’ (Daniel 2:44)” In the letter to the Ephesians, Paul wrote, “To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen” (Ephesians 3:21). “If God is glorified in the church to all generations, then the church is a relationship that will exist in all generations.” Read 2 Kings 22:8-13. What did you learn? The book of the law had been FOUND. They recognized their failure in heeding God’s word and the wrath that burned against them. They need to restore worship acceptable to God! Read Jeremiah 36:20-28. The scroll Jeremiah had written was burned by King Jehoiakim, what happened? Did it frustrate God’s plan? By no means, another copy was made. The OT was written for our learning and instruction (Romans 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11). So again, NO, the church did not vanish without a trace. Mouse2 |