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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34572 | ||
Greetings Curt! As I have done before, I would respectfully disagree with this position. The text does not say all "kinds" of men. It does not say "Gentiles". The text doesn't even mention "Jews". In my personal opinion, the redefition of "all" to mean "some" is only based upon the demands of one's theology, not upon the text. It is a very subjective process. For instance, Jesus said in John 6:37 that "all" that the Father gives me will come to me. Would it be okay here to say that He doesn't mean each individual, but only some? The context must be the final arbitrator. If a passage says "all" in a certain room will receive a gift. Then "all" is limited to those in the room. However, John 12:32 contains absolutely no limiting words. The only problem is that it doesn't agree with a certain doctrine, so we limit it. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34585 | ||
Hi again First of all, I read in one commentary that the word "men" is not in the earliest manuscripts, that it is merely implied... for whatever that is worth. Secondly, the "redefinition of the word all" is not based on a particular theology, but based on context and how it fits with the remainder of Scripture. I know you don't believe that Jesus is saying all men will be saved... only that all will be drawn. OK... what happens after they are drawn? Here is what Scripture (not theology) says: John:16 (Jesus speaking) You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. God chooses. Mat 22:14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen." God chooses. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. God chooses. James 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. God chooses. 1 Peter 1 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. God chooses. 1 Peter 2 9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. God chooses. Revelation 17:14 They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." God chooses. Genesis 18 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him." God chooses. Psalm 33 11 But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations. 12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance. God chooses. Psalm 106 4 Remember me, O LORD, when you show favor to your people, come to my aid when you save them, 5 that I may enjoy the prosperity of your chosen ones, that I may share in the joy of your nation and join your inheritance in giving praise. 6 We have sinned, even as our fathers did; we have done wrong and acted wickedly. 7 When our fathers were in Egypt, they gave no thought to your miracles; they did not remember your many kindnesses, and they rebelled by the sea, the Red Sea. 8 Yet he saved them for his name's sake, to make his mighty power known. God chooses. Ezekiel 20 5 and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On the day I chose Israel, I swore with uplifted hand to the descendants of the house of Jacob and revealed myself to them in Egypt. With uplifted hand I said to them, "I am the LORD your God." God chooses. Romans 3 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." We are so blessed... Because God chooses us! Choosing means "To select from a number of possible alternatives; decide on and pick out." Does this not imply that some are chose, some are not chosen, otherwise, what is the selection? When God chose Israel, did He not leave others unchosen? If not, then what did choosing Israel mean? God is sovereign and can choose whom He will for His sovereign purpose. Blessings Curt |
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3 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34588 | ||
Greetings Curt! You are correct! The word "men" is not in the text. The word is the masculine, plural, accustative adjective 'all'. Thus, it refers to all people, not just men. Concerning your NT quotes, notice that they all have one thing in common. They are addressed to believers. Now, suppose I was addressing a congregation and said, "God loves you". Does that mean that God loves no one else except for those in the congregation? This is the problem I have with the way in which many of these verses are interpreted. They are addressed to believers. They are chosen, but does that mean that no one else is chosen as well. Depending on the passage, there are other questions which jump up as well. Chosen for what? Salvation? Ministy? To display God's glory? 1) John 15:16: It appears here that the choice is for ministry. I just did a quick glance, but it appears that all of the occurances of this word in John refer to the disciples. Are they the only ones chosen? 2) Mt. 22:14 - Wasn't the whole point of this parable that the invitation was extended? 3) The rest of the NT quotes fall in the situation above. They say that those to whom he is writing are chosen, but do not say that no one else is chosen as well. Concerning your last paragraph! "Choosing means "To select from a number of possible alternatives; decide on and pick out." Does this not imply that some are chose, some are not chosen, otherwise, what is the selection? When God chose Israel, did He not leave others unchosen? If not, then what did choosing Israel mean? God is sovereign and can choose whom He will for His sovereign purpose." I agree, but God did not exclude anyone from salvation by choosing to make Israel His people. Obviously, God works in different ways with different inviduals. But, where is the verse which says He did not die for everyone? Where is the verse which says that He doesn't want everyone to be saved? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34619 | ||
Hi Brother Tim That's a great answer, but I think I can challenge it. Unfortunately its too late tonight, and I'm in meetings all day tomorrow. But I'll get back to you shortly. Briefly, I think the verses which indicate that God hardened Pharoah, and chose Jacob (and hated Esau before he had been born) gives us some indication and are a few examples. There are others. Talk with you soon. Blessings til then Curt |
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5 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34633 | ||
Greetings Curt! No rush! I've enjoyed our discussions though! I'm glad you have become part of the forum! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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