Subject: do we have any free will? |
Bible Note: Rob: This is a forum for discussing ideas, not a mutual admiration society. If the latter were the case, I would have been voted out long ago! Disagreement is going to occur among people on this forum. That is historically the way the church has gathered to hammer out sound theology. You wrote: "Your objection to my first question actually limits God by attributing "foresight" to Him instead of complete omniscience." No, I did not limit God's omniscience (a biblically supported concept) to mere foresight. What I DID imply that God's omniscience is not the same thing as God's foreordination of all events (another concept supported by the Bible). God at the same time knows all things and sovereignly governs them. You then wrote: "Your objection to my second question misses the point completely, I asked if we share omniscience with God, in which the answer is no. You however pose a senseless objection in the form of a question: Again, is God someone who just KNOWS, or someone who CAUSES? The question is whether or not we share the knowledge of all events with God." It wasn't senseless at all. I agree with your second point completely, but it has nothing to do with whether we have a nature that is morally capable of embracing God. Our lack of omniscience contributes absolutely nothing to any discussion of human free will. "Your objection to my fifth question is because I used the word "then" at the end of my sentence: Do we have complete free will to choose then? Absolutely. I used "then" to signify the culmination of my line of questioning (the end that was gradually led to)." And that is precisely what I hold as being erroneous. The conclusion you reach in no way logically and inescapably follows the four previous statements. You wrote: "To make a long story short, it is possible to have a universe completely predetermined and known by One Being, while at the same time giving His creations free-will. This only seems to be a paradox to us, but it's not to God." But the one thing I have not seen you address is what the Bible actually teaches about our moral ability to come to Jesus Christ. Even the classical Arminian declares it to be impossible without "prevenient grace" from God. What you are asserting is what can be considered to be (at the very least) semi-Pelagianism. You wrote: "Note: Quantum physics predicts that if an outcome is observed by anyone, it collapses all other possiblities and makes the outcome a reality. Ponder that for a moment." Quantum physics is not science; it is theoretical philosophy. And it runs counter to the biblical assertion of an ontological reality apart from our perceptions. Quantum physics goes farther than what you stated above; quantum physics states that our observation of things MAKES something real. Reality does not depend on our observations of it, no matter what people may say about the sounds trees make when falling in isolated forests. If YOU wish to ponder both quantum physics and chaos theory from a biblical perspective, I recommend R.C. Sproul's book, _Not a Chance._ Lastly, you wrote: "Take care everyone. I won't be posting anymore. I can't say anything without having my words picked apart." And neither can I. Welcome to public discourse. --Joe! |