Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34557 | ||
How about Jacob and Esau as discussed in Romans 9? 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." God chose one not the other. Why? To serve His purpose in election (whatever that means). How can He do this? Because He is sovereign. And what is the lesson for us? Read on... 16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. If that wasn't enough, Paul gives us more evidence, with Pharoah starring in subsequent verses: 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." God hardened Pharoah's heart to glorify Himself. God's explanation: 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Is that really fair? 19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" Back in the penalty box we go: 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" Hard teaching, but I think it speaks to your question. All have sinned. None deserve salvation. God is sovereign and can choose to show mercy to whomever He chooses. If it is His will to choose some and not choose others, (and apparently it is), who are we to question God? And who can resist His will if He chooses us? Matthew 22:14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen." Blessings Curt |
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2 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34566 | ||
Greetings Curt! If you read my former posts on Romans 9, you will find that I reject the view that Jacob was chosen over Esau for salvation. Jacob was chosen to be the one through whom Israel would descend. The whole argument of Romans 9 is not to exclude people, it is Paul's attempt to show that God is just to include people. Further, check out Rom. 11:32. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34574 | ||
Blessings Brother Tim! - You said: "The whole argument of Romans 9 is not to exclude people, it is Paul's attempt to show that God is just to include people." And so Pharoah was (unchosen, de-selected, hardened) for (inclusion, exclusion) what??? Paul was saying that God chooses, period... and by the way, Gentiles, lucky you! You've been chosen! He juxtaposes chosen people with unchosen people, individuals and groups. To your statement: "God is just to include people"... If God is only just, then we are all doomed. If we are saved, it is only God's mercy that saves us, not His justice. Clearly, in Romans 11:30-32 God selects and deselects groups (meaning salvation) to serve His sovereign will, just as He did with individuals such as Pharoah, Jacob, Esau, Paul and many others. If I took your position to the extreme (which I know you don't), we end up with universalism... that God's grace and mercy were sufficient to save all men, and who are we to say that some won't be saved?... Isn't God's love infinite? I believe that Romans 9 is saying very directly that God's sovereignty is above all. We are all sinners and deserving of death. God chooses to save some (maybe many) but it is purely His call as to who is chosen, according to His divine will. I believe that Romans 11:30-32 supports this... the One doing the "binding" in verse 32 is who (God/man)? Blessings Curt |
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