Results 1 - 7 of 7
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34532 | ||
Greetings Joe! An Arminian would counter your John 6:44 with John 12:32. :-) Which raises an interesting question! Are there any verses which limit who Christ will draw? I agree with you on John 6:44. I also agree that in our depravity, we would never desire God. Where we part company is that I believe God draws all, not just some. John 12:32 defines the extent of the drawing, but John 6:44 doesn't. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
2 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 34540 | ||
Tim: Of course, your Reformed brethren would counter your take on John 12:32 with the question: "Are indeed ALL human beings drawn to Christ?" I see many who are nothing but repelled by him... John 6:44 itself does not limit the extent of the drawing, but we see in the larger context of Jesus' discourse that there is some limitation. In John 6:37 we see that all that God has given to Jesus WILL come to him, and that He will not cast us out. Verse 6:39 says that Jesus will lose none of those the Father has given him, and that he will raise us up on the last day. That second phrase is repeated in the next verse (a "whosoever will" verse) and in 6:44 and in 6:54. I think it is safe to conclude that those whom Jesus is talking about are the saints of God. So what we see about those who will be "raised up on the last day" is the following I use "we" and "us" here because we as believers belong to this category): 1. God has given us to the Son, and all of us WILL come to Christ (John 6:37,39) 2. We are those who will believe in Christ (6:40). 3. We cannot come unless the Father draws us (6:44,65). 3. We will "eat the flesh and drink the blood" of the Son (6:54) This is why I hold that we CANNOT come without the Father drawing us, and that we WILL come when the Father does draw us. Therefore, one can infer that the reason people do not come to the Son is because the Father does not draw them. In fact, we see from John 6:66 that Jesus' words had precisely the opposite effect on some who had been following him (for whatever reason) up to that point. Therefore, I hold that John 6:44 contributes to the larger discourse in John 6 of who is able to come, and who will or will not believe in the Son. --Joe! |
||||||
3 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34554 | ||
Greetings Joe! What then would you say is the meaning of John 12:32? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
4 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 34560 | ||
Tim: Oh, you know the argument... :) --Joe! |
||||||
5 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34567 | ||
Greetings Joe! LOL I appreciate your gentle spirit my friend! We have had the chance to debate these issues several times, and you have always been a gentleman and treated me like a brother in Christ. One of these days, we will know who was right! :-) Until then, I hope everyone takes note that individuals can disagree about positions and still love one another! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
6 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 34573 | ||
Tim: My wife would be the one laughing the hardest at you saying I have a "gentle spirit"! I must say that is the first time I can be accused of that particular vice... :) --Joe! |
||||||
7 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34579 | ||
Greetings Joe! I have to admit though, it is harder to 'argue' with someone you like! :-) By the way, my wife might feel the same way about me! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||