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NASB | Romans 8:28 ¶ And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 8:28 ¶ And we know [with great confidence] that God [who is deeply concerned about us] causes all things to work together [as a plan] for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to His plan and purpose. |
Subject: Is God's will prosperity/healing always? |
Bible Note: "First, I'd like to get a few misconceptions out of the way. I didn't mean to imply that all of the money that Jesus spent during His earthly ministry was all there in one lump sum. It may have been, but I don't think so and I don't believe that the Bible specifies that. Actually, with money constantly going in and out Judas would have a much easier time embezzeling." So how does this support the idea that Jesus was comfortably prosperous, unlike Paul in Philippians 4:11-13? Jesus had his NEEDS met. Nothing else can be reasonably drawn from the text. "I only said that it was Judas' only job because I haven't seen anywhere else in the scriptures where Judas was handling any other task, but that's really a minor detail." Well, you did use it as support for your reasoning that Jesus had a pretty vast sum of money. Many of the twelve are barely mentioned at all. Are we to conclude that they did NOTHING? It is safe to assume that Judas was assigned more than the role of treasurer. "Somewhere it says that there would be nothing about His appearance that would attract us to Him, so they probably weren't lavish garments. However, they were probably well made garments that looked nice, not the rags of a pauper." No one is saying Jesus was a pauper. Neither are most Americans. I doubt that you are a pauper, and that is not because you have "believed on God" not to be one. Have you ever regularly ministered among the poor? "Grace is God giving us what we don't deserve (ie salvation, healing, the means to supply our needs)." But where in Scripture do you see that material grace is equally given to all? It is quite clear from the Acts of the Apostles and the epistles that many Christians were poor, even slaves. Nowhere do the authors of the NT indicate that material wealth in this life is promised to the follower of Jesus Christ. Additionally, it is by God's grace that we believe in the first place. Grace precedes our faith in salvation. "I'm not saying that Jesus lived an extravagant lifestyle, but I am saying that His needs and the needs of those around Him were met." And I can agree with that. That is not to say that God is bound to meet our wants, nor does it mean that what we consider to be our needs are actually our needs. Is three meals a day actually a need? Is fine clothing a need? Is a comfortable house a need? Jesus tells us not to worry about what we are going to eat or what we will wear (Matthew 6), but He never said that the Christian life would be a comfortable one. Most of what He said suggested that the opposite is the norm. Paul had indicated that he had often gone hungry. Paul indicated that he had suffered want in his ministry. Paul worked hard to gather collections for the poor saints, rather than to tell them to claim their blessing. In the NT, the material needs of the saints were always met by the generosity of brothers and sisters in Christ, who themselves often gave beyond their ability. Prosperity doctrine would have us believe that Paul was going about things all the wrong way; and you have to admit, if you are honest, that Kenneth Hagin is saying much more than "we will have what we need to survive and do God's work if we only believe." The prosperity "gospel" is not "my God will supply all your needs," but rather that "material abundance and perfect health await the truly committed Christian." I have enjoyed this dialogue. It is good to see 19-year-olds studying Scripture. I do not see it that much among the professing Christian teens I work with. Keep studying the Scriptures, and let them transform your thinking, and be careful of the tendency to make them fit pre-conceived cultural notions. That is something Christians of every age have had to struggle with. Also, feel free to email me and let me know where you are going to Bible school! --Joe! |