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NASB | Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 1:20 For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through His workmanship [all His creation, the wonderful things that He has made], so that they [who fail to believe and trust in Him] are without excuse and without defense. [Ps 19:1-4; Eph 2:10] |
Subject: Is God somehow responsible? |
Bible Note: Dear Tim, Are you attempting to stereotype me by calling me Joe? :-) Tim: "Do I agree that 'everything' happens according to God's eternal plan? No! Do I believe that everything God ordains to happen will happen? Yes!".........."There is a subtle difference. I don't believe that God plans out every decision and action of man." Sounds reasonable Tim, but what is the basis for your belief? Tim: "Back to Adam and Eve for a moment, I thought you didn't believe in human free will? Adam and Eve didn't have a sin nature prior to the fall, so what was the cause of their decision to sin. If God only permitted their sin, what was the cause of their sin? If everything happens according to God's plan, then wouldn't their very decision itself have to be ordained by God? If God only allowed the decision, then He didn't sovereignly decree it would happen". This is the very reason why it is so important to discuss our different views on doctrine. You thought that I (and mabe calvinists in general) don't believe in "free will". But we do! We believe that Adam and Eve, in their state of innocency, had free-will. The reason for their fall was their desire to be as God is, in wisdom, knowlege and power. God did ordain that they would sin but did not coerce or force their decision. This is one of the most difficult subjects to understand. But we know that God's plan is a perfect plan and therefore I, for one, will rest easy and not attempt to answer questions that the Bible has not provided answers for. I never claimed that calvinism is a man-pleasing doctrine. All I can do is point to the scriptures that prove it to be true. Enlightenment resides within the province of the Holy Spirit. Tim: "It seems to me that God allowed their decision, but that He was not the cause of it." I don't believe that we have the authority to pick and choose as we may. How it seems to one is irrelenant. Tim: "Concerning Piper, how could it be true that a sovereign God could will something, but it not come to pass?" The most compelling example of God's willing for sin to come to pass while at the same time disapproving the sin is his willing the death of his perfect, divine Son. The betrayal of Jesus by Judas was a morally evil act inspired immediately by Satan (Luke 22:3). Yet in Acts 2:23 Luke says, "This Jesus [was] delivered up according to the definite plan (boule) and foreknowledge of God." The betrayal was sin, and it involved the instrumentality of Satan; but it was part of God's ordained plan. That is, there is a sense in which God willed the delivering up of his Son, even though the act was sin. (Two Wills of God) Try to keep the Ten Commandments sometime! It was God's will that they be kept, and kept perfectly at that. Yet He also knew that it was impossible for man to obey them. John aka "Joe" |