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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 50994 | ||
Greetings Raven! You have demonstrated exactly the problem one has in trying to define baptism in such a way that it is not a work. You yourself wrote: "If we go only with Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved" then the above scriptures would contradict because they show that works are needed. Not works as doing good deeds but obedient works that submit to the gospel." The problem is that even under your definition, baptism is still a work and is still necessary for salvation. Thus, your definition does contradict Eph. 2:8-9, which specifically rules out any works as being necessary for salvation. What role does 'works' play in our salvation, none in accomplishing our salvation. However, once we are saved, then we will 'work' and be obedient to God's commands - such as baptism. This is exactly what Eph. 2:10 and James 2 are both speaking about. James 2 isn't saying that works save us. James 2 is saying that those who are saved (or who have faith) will 'work'. You see, I don't have any problem with saying: "Once you are saved, you must be baptized", since Jesus commands it. But, I do have a problem with saying: "You must be baptized in order to be saved." This violates Eph. 2:8-9, Romans 4-5, and Galations - all of which make it clear that 'works' cannot save us, nor do they help us along in salvation. Salvation is entirely a work of Grace in response to faith. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51020 | ||
Tim, You write:What role does 'works' play in our salvation, none in accomplishing our salvation. However, once we are saved, then we will 'work' and be obedient to God's commands - such as baptism. So basically what you are saying is God owes it to us to save us? You said, "once we are saved, then we will 'work". My friend I am not trying to twist your words but you make it sound like before you do anything for the Lord He's going to have to save you first. Friend it never has worked this way and never will. God has given to us all He is going to. The Gospel and a meens to accept it and we have to go to Him and accept it. God doesn't come down from Heaven and pick you, you have to pick God, by repenting, confessing, and being baptized. Only then will the Lord add you to His church. Remember Tim I am not saying that I can acumulte merit badges by doing different works. These works I am speaking of are things that are required. Just as in the Old Testament didn't the High Priest once a year have to offer a sacrifice, once for himself and once for the rest of the people? Could he have just offered one sacrifice for everybody and that be acceptable? No. There are guide lines that God has set forth in His word that we must comply with. Baptism is the culminating act that shows our obedience to God. You cannot expect to be saved without first being baptized. Romans 6 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE. This is after we are baptized. 'knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8Now IF WE DIED WITH CHRIST, we believe that we shall also live with Him,' We die with Christ through Baptism, there is no other way. Raven |
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3 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 51027 | ||
You wrote: "So basically what you are saying is God owes it to us to save us?" I do not see how in the slightest you could get that out of what Tim said. God doesn't owe us salvation. That is the very meaning of the concept of GRACE. When God saves sinners, we get the exact opposite of what we are owed. "My friend I am not trying to twist your words but you make it sound like before you do anything for the Lord He's going to have to save you first. Friend it never has worked this way and never will. God has given to us all He is going to." My friend, that is the only way it CAN work. "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." --Romans 5:6-8 "For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him." --Romans 8:6-9 What in there gives you the idea that the unsaved can or want to do anything for the Lord before we are saved (including baptism)? And is that all God is going to do? He is just waiting, standing by to see what we will do? Is that really Scriptural? If you think so, we can deflate that, too. --Joe! |
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