Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | TOFT | 50742 | ||
Tim, Thanks for your comments...appreciate it. “An Evaluation of the New International Version”, by; Foy E. Wallace Jr. quotes "the textual historical fact is that there are five hundred manuscripts and two thousand copies of that category of manuscripts that produced the Bible—and the end of Mark is missing for only two of the five hundred manuscripts, and from none of the two thousand copies! The end of John is missing from the same manuscripts and Hebrews ends at chapter nine" That would be were I got it from...I take this source as very reliable...also a great critique on the reliability of the NIV. Through HIM, TOFT |
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2 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 50766 | ||
Greetings Toft! I'm not sure of the numbers in your quote, since Bruce Metzger lists much more textual support for the absence of vv. 9-20 than two manuscripts. But, even if they were accurate, the simple fact is that manuscripts are 'weighed' not simply 'counted'. For example, one could have 10,000 copies dating from the 10th century and only 2 dating from the 1st century. Obviously, the ones dating from the 1st century would have more evidentiary value than the ones dating from the 10th century. This is a common mistake that people make when evaluting variant readings. The evidence for or against the longer reading of Mk. 16 is by no means conclusive, but the evidence for it's ommissions appears to be more substantial. Of course, there are other facts which must be weighed other than just age, but in this case age is pretty important. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | TOFT | 50779 | ||
Tim, What you said about age and other facts is very true...it does matter. I just wanted to list something for everyone to think about...why do people attack Mark, and not John or Hebrews when they are excluded in the same manuscripts as Mark is? It has to do with a pattern. A pattern that many do not want to humble themselves to OBEY God. Obedience is Love (1 John 5:3, John 14:15). Look at Naaman in the OT...he didn't want to humble himself and be CLEANSED by a simple thing...that is what we call baptism today. I think this has to do with TODAY completely...the lack to HUMBLE oneself and OBEY. Through HIM, TOFT |
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4 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 50788 | ||
Greetings Toft! I think you missed my point my friend, there isn't any textual evidence for the exclusion of the ending of Hebrews or John. Mark and John are not excluded in the same manuscripts which exclude Mark 16:9-20. The only passage I know of in John which is in question is the woman caught in adultery (John 7:53-8:11). And this passage is excluded from just about every manuscript prior to the 12th century. Further, it is handled in modern translations in exactly the same way as Mark 16:9-20 - it is set off from the text with footnotes noting that it was not original to the text. I honestly don't feel like humility has anything to do with my rejection of baptismal regeneration. My pride would like to think that there is something I can do to 'earn' salvation. But, Scipture is clear that there isn't! :-) It is more humbling to trust simply in His grace apart from my own efforts. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | TOFT | 50794 | ||
Tim, With Mark and John...I did not mean the whole...when I said Mark and John...I was referring to the endings...my mistake, should have been more clear on that. I don't see what the textual evidence is that puts Mark's ending in question...do you happen to have some resources that I could study on this? Through HIM, TOFT |
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6 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 50798 | ||
Greetings Toft! I'm not aware of any dispute about the endings of either John or Hebrews. Concerning Mark, I will post below what I posted earlier about the evidence against the longer reading. It is very hard to put manuscript evidence for or against on this forum since we can't use Greek or Hebrew fonts. The best book I could recommend is Bruce Metzger's, "A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament", published by the United Bible Societies. It goes through the textual evidence for just about every variant reading in the New Testament. It is an excellent resource for those who are interested in studying the manuscript evidence. Here is a summary of the evidence about the endings of Mark. ****************************************** There are four versions of the ending of Mark. 1) The first does not have the last twelve verses of the commonly receved text of Mark. To quote Bruce Metzger: They "...are absent from the two odest Greek manuscrpts, from the Old Latin codex Bobienss, the Sinaitic Syriac manuscript, about one hundred Armenian manuscripts, and the two oldest Georgia manuscripts. Clement of Alexandria and Origen show no knoledge of the existence of these verses, furthermore Eusebious and Jerome attest that the passage was abent from almost all Greek copies of Mark known to them. The orginal form of the Eusebian sections (drawn up by Ammoninu) makes no provision for numbeing sections fo the text after 16:8. Not a few manuscripts which contain the passage have scribal notes stating that older Greek copies lack it, and in other witnesses the passage is marked with asterisks or obeli, the conventional signs used by copyists to indiate a spurious addition to a document." Source (A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, by Bruce Metzger, pp. 122-123). 2) The second ending is found in several mid to late versions. It says, "But they reported briefly to Peter and those with him all that they had been told And after this Jesus himself sent out by meas of them, from east to west, the sacred and imperishble proclamation of eternal salvation." This addition is then followed by vv. 9-20 in most of the manuscripts containing this ending. 3) The third is the traditional ending (vv. 9-20). It is found in the vast number of witnesses: including, A, C, D, k, X, W, ect... The only problem is that these manuscripts are not as old as those supporting the first manuscript and they contain a different style of writting than the rest of Mark. 4) There was also a longer version which circulated in the fourth century accoding to Jermore. It is only found in one Greek manuscript. ********************************************* Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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