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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | need for a bible-anyone | Bible general Archive 1 | mouse2 | 50439 | ||
You wrote: So the Church of Christ's solution to not being identified as a "part" of Christianity is suggesting that they encompass the whole of Christianity. You still have the same "invisible/visible church" issue within the Churches of Christ, however. You are not a member of a Church of Christ congregation in the city where I live, but rather in a Church of Christ congregation where you live. If the Church of Christ where I live is the true church, how can it also be where you live? One needs to understand the universal church and the local church. The universal church is the whole body of believers, canvassing the entire globe. Its only officer is Jesus Christ. (Eph 1:22-23) No other organizational structure to be found in the universal church. The local church is just that, local. Jesus is also the head of the each local congregation (Eph 1:22-23; Rev 3:19). Elders and deacons are offices for the local congregations (Acts 14:23, 1 Pet 5:2 – how would elders and deacons fulfill this command if at a universal level?) There is no provision anywhere in Scripture for an organizational structure under Christ on earth. You say rightly that I am not a member of the congregation that meets in your city because I do not live there. If I were, I could ask to place membership with that local group of Christians doing God’s will, obeying His commands and still be right with God. Christ is the head of the Universal church, He will determine who is and isn’t a faithful Christian. Each local congregation will have to determine whether someone may place membership or not (Acts 9:19-31). Becoming a Christian does not grant me automatic membership into each local congregation, the opposite is also true; being withdrawn from does not automatically exclude me either (3 John 9-10). Basically, if all the Bible has said concerning the church only applies to the church universal, we could not abide by God’s commands (1 Cor 5:1-5 “when you are assembled” – only done locally, Heb 10:25 “not forsaking our own assembling together” - only done locally, etc). There are many points to be made concerning the differences, but this will suffice for now. You wrote: Interesting that you compare the church of the Lord Jesus to a game that consists entirely of rules, as if that is all the church is. Can we be real? You completely missed the point or chose to miss it. Obviously the church is not a game nor does it consist entirely of rules! The point is: it is ridiculous to claim the church we read in the NT is “new” because you believe it is new to this age and time. Take note: “the Word of God is the seed of the kingdom (Luke 8:11; Matthew 13:18-23). It is also affirmed that this Word of God is incorruptible and abides forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). In addition, seed always produces after its kind (Genesis 1:11-12). When the apostles planted the seed of the kingdom in the First Century, churches of Christ resulted (Acts 2:47; 1 Corinthians 1:2; Romans 16:16). Seeing that we have the same seed today, when we simply preach the same gospel, churches of Christ will be produced today as well. It should be observed that to get something else, some other seed must be planted. To get the Mormon church, one must plant the book of Mormon. To get the Catholic church, a catechism is needed. For Jehovah Witnesses, the writings of the Watchtower Society, for Muslims, the Koran must be preached, and so on.” You wrote: Does this quote mean that you do indeed believe the church disappeared off the face of the earth between the first century and it's "restoration" by the likes of Stone and Campbell? Please answer directly. We can take it. And if so, can you point out exactly when it vanished without a trace? No, I don’t believe the church disappeared off the face of the earth. “God assured us that this kingdom to be established ‘will never be destroyed…but it will itself endure forever’ (Daniel 2:44)” In the letter to the Ephesians, Paul wrote, “To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen” (Ephesians 3:21). “If God is glorified in the church to all generations, then the church is a relationship that will exist in all generations.” Read 2 Kings 22:8-13. What did you learn? The book of the law had been FOUND. They recognized their failure in heeding God’s word and the wrath that burned against them. They need to restore worship acceptable to God! Read Jeremiah 36:20-28. The scroll Jeremiah had written was burned by King Jehoiakim, what happened? Did it frustrate God’s plan? By no means, another copy was made. The OT was written for our learning and instruction (Romans 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11). So again, NO, the church did not vanish without a trace. Mouse2 |
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2 | need for a bible-anyone | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 50736 | ||
Mouse 2, if, as you say, the church did not disappear from the first century to the 19th, when Campbell et.al. came along and jump started it to become what is known as the 'Church of Christ,' then who were the church members during that long interim and what did they call themselves? A second question, and please be as expansive as you like and as specific as you can: I'm not a member of the 'Church of Christ' in the specific denominational sense, i.e., not of the church 'restored' by Alexander Campbell and his pals. I am a member of a church that calls itself 'Baptist.' I very firmly profess to be a Christian. Do I and other professing Christians of various other communions, in your view, have any hope of salvation, since we are not card-carrying members of your 'Church of Christ' but do maintain that we are truly members of the Church of Christ? Please be honest and candid on this: what are your actual views? And the views of the 'Church of Christ' as a corporate body? --Hank | ||||||
3 | need for a bible-anyone | Bible general Archive 1 | Aspiring Overseer | 50752 | ||
"..then who were the church members during that long interim and what did they call themselves?" Answer: Christians Christians have walked the earth since Christ formed the church. They just have not named themselves, written a book about their history, bought public church property, advertised for new members or registered with governments for tax exempt status. Hard to believe? See: 1 Kings 19:13-18 13And it came about when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. And behold, a voice came to him and said, "What are you doing here, Elijah?" 14Then he said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the sons of Israel have forsaken Thy covenant, torn down Thine altars and killed Thy prophets with the sword. And I alone am left; and they seek my life, to take it away." 15And the LORD said to him, "Go, return on your way to the wilderness of Damascus, and when you have arrived, you shall anoint Hazael king over Aram; 16and Jehu the son of Nimshi you shall anoint king over Israel; and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah you shall anoint as prophet in your place. 17And it shall come about, the one who escapes from the sword of Hazael, Jehu shall put to death, and the one who escapes from the sword of Jehu, Elisha shall put to death. 18Yet I will leave 7,000 in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal and every mouth that has not kissed him." NAS Even a chosen prophet of God was unaware of those who had chosen to remain faithful to God. Likewise the Church persists from the day of Pentecost to today! |
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4 | need for a bible-anyone | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 50763 | ||
Aspiring Overseer: What historical proof have you for your claim? Since the Catholic church was the 'church of record' during much of the time between the 1st and 19th centuries, were these 'Christians' you speak of Catholics? If not, exactly who were they and what historical proof can you produce that they actually existed? Merely to say that Christians have walked the earth in uninterrupted procession since the establishment of the church certainly doesn't say that these people were 'Church of Christ' people! Let's stop playing around with pipe dreams and wishful thinking and get down to facts, OK? For the life of me, I fail to see that the OT verses you cited have the least connection with the subject under question.....And I'll ask you the question I asked Mouse: Are all professing Christians except those who are members of your 'Church of Christ' headed for hell? --Hank | ||||||