Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 50716 | ||
My dear friend Tim, Who ever told you that Mark 16:16 wasn't in many manuscripts is wrong! In fact it is in the oldest manuscripts! It's funny when it come to this statement in the bible people want to throw it out, why not just except it obey and teach it like the apostles did! If the believers of today were back in the first centry what a fight that would be over what Jesus said in Mark 16:16. Do you think Peter, Paul,James,John and rest of the apostles would except what you are telling me about what the text says, or would the Holy Spirit be pleased? I notice your dependence on the "(like the infamous thief on the cross)" my question to you on him and him alone is did he hear the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST ? Romans 1:16 says it is God's POWER TO SAVE MEN! Did the thief hear that? And if not, and he didn't, does that exclued you and I? Can men be saved without hearing the gospel? The thief was saved without hearing it! The gospel is what tells men to repent and be baptized Matt28:18-19; Mark 16:15-16 it in the preaching of the gospel, Acts2:36-41, in the book of Acts when the gospel was preached and it was the preaching that told men to obey the Lord's word and it was done in most cases. Those who didn't except the gospel were lost. You say that baptism is not essential to salvation, is that your belief? If you were to talk with the apostle Peter, do you think you could convince him of the same? How about Jesus, do you think you could convince Him on your belief? |
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2 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 50717 | ||
Excellent post! Grace and Truth, Keep telling it like it is. Don't bend a knee to those of this forum who refuse to hear. I wonder if they were around to hear Stephen, would they have joined in to stone him? Acts 7 Israel Resists the Holy Spirit 51 "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Raven |
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3 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 50724 | ||
Greetings Raven! I have no problem with you agreeing with someone who shares a like view with you. But, I do have a problem with comparing those who view this issue differently than you do with those who crucified Christ or stoned Stephen. The simple fact is that there are more statments in the Bible which support that baptism is not essential to salvation. One could ask the quesiton, why don't you hear them? Rather than name calling my friend, why don't you simply 'show' us from Scripture how the following Scriptures teach that one must be baptized in order to be saved: Just from Acts, we have these statements: 1) Consider the following verses from Acts where forgiveness is mentioned and notice that not one of them links forgiveness with baptism. a) Acts 5:31 - "God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel." b) Acts 10:43 - "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." c) Acts 13:38-39 - ‘‘Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39 Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses." d) Acts 26:18 - "to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." Notice that none of these other verses in Acts tie baptism in with the forgiveness of sins. If baptism were essential to salvation, you would think that it would be mentioned in these other verses as well. If something else is required, which is not mentioned in these verses, than these Scriptures were giving false teaching. 2) Acts 2:21 - "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’" 3) Acts 16:30 - " He then brought them out and asked, ‘‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, ‘‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”" Notice that Paul does not say that they must believe and be baptized in order to be saved. 4) Rom. 10:13 - "for, ‘‘Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”" Acts 10 pretty well destroys the baptismal regeneration position all by itself. There we find people believing, being filled with the Holy Spirit, and then being baptized because they had been filled with the Holy Spirit. If your position is correct, then they were not saved until they were baptized in water. Therefore, they could not have been filled with the Holy Spirit. According to your own reading of Acts 2:38, one cannot received the gift of the Holy Spirit until after one has been baptized. So, rather than calling those of us who disagree with your interpretation names, why not simply deal with these verses and show us how they can possibly support your position. p.s. - I would never have stoned Stephen because he would have been my brother in Christ. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 50898 | ||
Hello Tim, You wrote,The simple fact is that there are more statments in the Bible which support that baptism is not essential to salvation. One could ask the quesiton, why don't you hear them? By this then you would admit that some scriptures point to the need for baptism. Right? My friend God only has to say it once. And if its a command we better do it. Raven |
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5 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | stjones | 50902 | ||
Hi, Raven; Just to put my cards on the table, I completely support Tim's statements on this issue. In everything I have ever seen him post these many months, he has consistently proven himself to be thoughtful, knowledgeable, curteous, and wise. In your note, you supposed that Tim "would admit that some scriptures point to the need for baptism" I don't speak for Tim, but I would agree that some scriptures do point in that direction. However, when a particular interpretation of a handful of passages directly contradicts a theme that is stated clearly and unequivocally throughout the Bible, I reject that interpretation as being of men, not of God. I'd like you to answer a question I recently posed to someone on the forum who seems to like rules and regulations - Paul wrote "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast" Grace accessed through faith; no mention of baptism. I would assume that many of the Ephesian believers had been baptised. But according to Paul, it was not baptism that saved them, rather it was God's gracious response to their faith. If Paul was not mistaken, not deceitful, not scribbling words that have no meaming today, how do you deny his simple, straightforward statement? Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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6 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 50908 | ||
Hi, Steve. You wrote: "But according to Paul, it was not baptism that saved them, rather it was God's gracious response to their faith." And, of course, some of us say that faith is our response to God's grace. :) One advantage, coming from a Reformed perspective, is that we do not even entertain the argument that baptism precedes regeneration, because we hold that the Bible teaches that God's regenerative grace precedes faith as well. The belief that God acts singlehandedly to both initiate and secure the salvation of individuals leaves no room for the question of regeneration by baptism. Now back to our regularly scheduled debate! :) --Joe! P.S. I sure wish one of these C of C people would address my comments regarding baptism and Galatians 3:15-17. |
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7 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | stjones | 50913 | ||
Hi, Joe! As a Presbyterian, I'm supposed to agree completely. There's just a teeny trace of Arminianism in me that keeps me at about 95 percent. ;-) Peace and Grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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