Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What if you don't obey that command? | Rom 6:4 | John Reformed | 56584 | ||
I believe that arguments of this nature arise from a fundamental misperception of salvation. It is a man-centered rather than a God-centered view of how WE are saved. Many people are under the impression that salvation depends on what WE do: WE must excercise "saving faith; We must be baptized; We must love God; WE must obey His Law; We must etc., etc., ad infinitum. I contend that the Bible (clearly teaches) that our salvation depends on what HE does. Rev 19:1 "After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God;"...It is God who has provided salvation for His people and He recieves the glory for it is His power that accomplises it in those who have been and are being saved. John |
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2 | What if you don't obey that command? | Rom 6:4 | Aspiring Overseer | 56781 | ||
You wrote,"Many people are under the impression that salvation depends on what WE do: WE must excercise "saving faith; We must be baptized; We must love God; WE must obey His Law; We must etc., etc., ad infinitum." Are you saying that a person may be saved who does not "excercise saving faith; or be baptized; love God; or obey His Law"? |
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3 | What if you don't obey that command? | Rom 6:4 | kalos | 56796 | ||
Repentance "is a VALID condition for salvation... ...when understood as a synonym for faith." According to John MacArthur, "Salvation is conditioned solely on faith in Jeus Christ." He goes on to list "The False Additions to Faith." They include: 1) surrender, 2) baptism, 3) repentance, and 4) confession. . . . He explains, Repentance "is a VALID condition for salvation when understood as a synonym for faith. It is a FALSE addition to faith when understood as a prerequisite, requiring the cleansing of the life in order to be saved" (p. 2073, Ryrie Study Bible Expanded Edition, Moody, 1986, 1995. Emphasis added.). To repent means much more than to have feelings of remorse. One can feel bad about his sin, but never change. Just feeling bad about your sins does not save anyone. Also please note what the word repentance actually means: To repent is "to change the way you think and act." Surely one does not have to change the way he thinks and acts BEFORE God will save him. Salvation WILL change the way you think and act. Changing in this manner is the RESULT, not the CAUSE, of salvation. |
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4 | What if you don't obey that command? | Rom 6:4 | Aspiring Overseer | 56810 | ||
You stated, "Surely one does not have to change the way he thinks and acts BEFORE God will save him. Salvation WILL change the way you think and act. Changing in this manner is the RESULT, not the CAUSE, of salvation." If this is true, why do judges keep serious criminals behind bars UNTIL they show signs of repentence? Most people I know would not be too excited about having an unrepentent arsonist move to their neighborhood. Deeds of repentence are ALWAYS required before salvation. |
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5 | What if you don't obey that command? | Rom 6:4 | kalos | 56821 | ||
Why judges keep serious criminals behind bars has nothing in the world to do with our salvation. We do not base the doctrine of salvation on what secular judges do or don't do. We do not base the doctrine of salvation on your reasoning or my reasoning. We base doctrine on the Word of God, the Bible. "Deeds of repentence are ALWAYS required before salvation." No, they are not. "Salvation is conditioned solely on faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times faith, or belief, is stated as the single condition in the N.T. (John 1:12; Acts 16:31). That faith must be placed in Christ as one's substitute for and Saviour from sin" ((p. 1950, Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, 1978). |
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6 | What if you don't obey that command? | Rom 6:4 | Aspiring Overseer | 56865 | ||
Since I am quoting God's word and you are countering with the written opinion of denominationalists, I would reconsider your line of arguement. That deeds of repentence are always required is not my opinion; its God's command. Consider this sample of verses: Lev 26:40-43 40'If they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their forefathers, in their unfaithfulness which they committed against Me, and also in their acting with hostility against Me-- 41I also was acting with hostility against them, to bring them into the land of their enemies-- or if their uncircumcised heart becomes humbled so that they then make amends for their iniquity, 42then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and I will remember also My covenant with Isaac, and My covenant with Abraham as well, and I will remember the land. NAS 2 Chron 7:13-15 14and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray, and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. NAS Luke 15:17-21 17"But when he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! 18'I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men. "' 20"And he got up and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him, and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him, and kissed him. 21"And the son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.' NAS Acts 17:30-31 30"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent, 31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead. " NAS Acts 26:19-20 19"Consequently, King Agrippa, I did not prove disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance. NAS Rev 3:19-20 19'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore, and repent. NAS Keep praying for guidance and God will be faithful. |
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7 | What if you don't obey that command? | Rom 6:4 | Reformer Joe | 56872 | ||
Lev 26:40-43 is not speaking of individual salvation, but rather what God will do with his covenant people as a collective. Look at its context. 2 Chron 7:13-15 falls into the same category. Luke 15:17-21 speaks of repentance. It is without question an aspect of saving faith and is better described as an attitude or disposition toward sin. The prodigal son repented before his father. What were the "deeds of repentance" that the Son performed in order to regain acceptance into his father's home and get that nice big feast? Acts 26:19-20 also speaks of the deeds appropraite to repentance. I have gladly stated that God-honoring works are the evidence of being a child of God. Please explain how these verses show that one must perform "deeds appropriate to repentance" IN ORDER TO turn to God? Rev 3:19-20, like the Old Testament passages, are speaking to the visible church, entire congregations. Nothing in the verse you quoted suggests that their continued state of salvation hinges on any acts they perform. In fact, what God was putting them through was not for sentencing or judgment, but rather "reproof and discipline" like a Father unto a child. No matter how many ways you keep pushing it, Aspiring Overseer, there is no escaping the fact that we do not earn or maintain salvation in any way by our works. To think that it is possible is to have a horribly low view of God's holiness and/or a very high opinion of your sinful self. --Joe! |
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