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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Morant61 | 70236 | ||
Greetings John! I asked Joe a question about Adam and Eve the other day and I was wondering if you would like to add your thoughts as well! I understand that Calvinism teaches that depraved man is free to follow his nature, and therefore, even though they can't accept Christ, they are still guilty for their choice. However, what about Adam and Eve? They were not created with a fallen nature. Was the sin of Adam and Eve cause by their will or by God's will? It doesn't seem that one can argue that God only permitted them to sin, because they didn't have a fallen nature which would have forced them to choose to disobey God. Of course, my thought on this is that we have a pefect example of both Sovereignty and human free will. God sovereignly created and set the boundaries, but gave Adam and Eve the ability to obey or disobey. They choose to disobey, hence they were found guilty of sin. I checked out your link! I have seen it before, but I find it very unconvincing. Allow to state why! Can God really will something, which is in His power to accomplish, if He doesn't do it? Arminians would say that God is willing to save all, and that He made provision to save all. So, God both willed and acted upon His will. Piper would have us believe that God willed all men to be saved, but did not will it enough to actually do anything about it, and in fact only saved some. I am always amazed at the length one has to go to redefine the terms in Scripture to uphold Calvinism. 'All' doesn't really mean 'all'. 'World' doesn't really mean 'world'. 'Everyone' doesn't really mean 'everyone'. And, now, Piper would have us believe that 'will' doesn't really mean 'will'. ;-) I was always taught that the more mental gymnastics one has to do to justify a doctrine or interpretation, the more likely one is wrong. His article reminds me of a guy I heard on the radio once in Ohio who tried to argue that Jesus didn't really mean that 'no one knows' when He would return, but that He only meant it would not be general knowledge. Now, I know that you will respond that not all our saved, and I would agree with you on that point. However, notice the difference in the two positions. 1) Piper: God wills all men to be saved, only those He elects can be saved, but contrary to His will He only saves some. 2) Arminianism: God wills all men to be saved, died for all, draws all, but only those who accept the gift of salvation will be saved. Under option one, God acts directly against His own will. Under option two, God acts to make it possible for His will to come to pass, even if not all accept. Well, this is getting long. I'll chat with you later my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Reformer Joe | 70264 | ||
"I am always amazed at the length one has to go to redefine the terms in Scripture to uphold Calvinism. 'All' doesn't really mean 'all'. 'World' doesn't really mean 'world'. 'Everyone' doesn't really mean 'everyone'." I find my own eyes popping out of their skulls watching your side with Romans 9 and John 6. What we do with words, you do with passages! Truly awe-inspiring work! :) Your brother in Christ, Joe! P.S. I was a little troubled by your comments regarding the Christ-church/husband-wife analogy from Ephesians 5. Is there no distinction between how Jesus loves the church and how he loves the rest of humanity? My wife would be pretty upset if I came to her and said that I need to exercise the same self-sacrifice toward every other woman that I show toward her. I think I will let you tell her! :) |
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3 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Morant61 | 70273 | ||
Greetings John! Thank you! ;-) Of course, I would argue that my treatments of Rom. 9 and John 6 are both lexiconly (sp?), contextually, and grammatically accurate! :-) Now, on to Eph. 5. Show me a verse where God says that He loves the Church, but hates the world, and I will agree with you. Otherwise, I will stick with my first memory verse - John 3:16. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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