Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | John Reformed | 70094 | ||
Dear Aznsmartyic, You began by saying: "I begin with a fact, that God loves us". By "us" I presume you mean "us meaning "christians". If so, I agree with your statement. If you had meant all people universaly, I would have disagreed. I hold the historic protestant view which is that God has ordained all things that occur. I also believe that the only proper way look at this subject is to recognize that all of God's works are holy, just and perfect. To do othewise is to elevate ourselves to the position of judges, with God in the dock being made to defend Himself against His accusers. Another problem to avoid is our propensity towards the false perception that God created this universe for oursakes. He did not! He created it for His pupose of displaying His glory before all to behold. The reason we were created was to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. The dilema you face is faced by all christians who subscribe to the doctrine of God's absolute soveriegnty. Men such as R.C. Sproul confess to having their theology turned upside down and inside out when faced with the clear teaching of Scripture. It can be difficult, especially after being fed a man-centered theology for any length of time. May God bless you as you search His truth for answers that satisfy the soul and mind. John Reformed PS: You may find it profitable to visit http://www.reformed.org/ It represents the teaching of the Reformers who were the fathers of the protestant faith. |
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2 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | EdB | 70108 | ||
John Let me interject here. You said, "You began by saying: "I begin with a fact, that God loves us". By "us" I presume you mean "us meaning "christians". If so, I agree with your statement. If you had meant all people universaly, I would have disagreed. " Would you show me that distinction made as you claim between saved and unsaved in John 3:16 You then said, "I hold the historic protestant view which is that God has ordained all things that occur. I also believe that the only proper way look at this subject is to recognize that all of God's works are holy, just and perfect. To do othewise is to elevate ourselves to the position of judges, with God in the dock being made to defend Himself against His accusers." That is not the only historic Protestant view. There is another that God gave man free will and allowed him choice. Just as he did with Adam and Eve he does with us all. God desired people that loved Him because he was worthy to be loved. He allowed man to choice to chose that love or not. Adam chose wrong, Man has lived with the results. Those results should even more convince us we need God but still many choose to do it their way. EdB |
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3 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | beva | 70114 | ||
EdB, you said, "That is not the only historic Protestant view. There is another that God gave man free will and allowed him choice. Just as he did with Adam and Eve he does with us all". Does Scripture not say otherwise? Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." EdB, this is one of many verses that clearly state that God decreed of old, some men to be damned for eternity. Now don't get angry at me, I'm just quoting Scripture:-) Exodus 4:21-23 "And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." Isn't it obvious that it was God who caused Pharaoh's heart to be hardened? Not Pharaoh himself. And again, in Romans 9:22-23 "What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction." I know this upsets many people, but biblically, some are indeed "fitted to destruction." Why? So God can show His love for the elect. Joshua 11:20 For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses". Again, it was God who "hardened their hearts". Psalm 105:25 "He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtly with his servants." Who turned their heart? --God. Proverbs 16:1 "The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD". Again, from who? The LORD, not man. Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being…" In Him. Not in us. He turns our hearts: Proverbs 21:1 "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." Proverbs 20:24 "Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?" We can't understand our own way EdB! Jeremiah 10:23 "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps". And thank God for that brother EDB! Trust only in Him! Sometimes, God even stops good counsel when it serves His purpose: 2 Samuel 17:14 "And Absalom and all the men of Israel said, The counsel of Hushai the Archite is better than the counsel of Ahithophel. For the LORD had appointed to defeat the good counsel of Ahithophel, to the intent that the LORD might bring evil upon Absalom". Isaiah 63:17 "O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear?" Why EdB? Why does God sometimes harden people's hearts? Because He is God and He is sovereign and He makes all things work for His glory. I could go on and on and on, but I fear I've taken up to much room already! And my guess is - we might as well debate how many angels could fit on the head of a pin:-) |
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4 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | EdB | 70116 | ||
John Does Scripture not say otherwise? Not to me and thousands of other men who stood on this side of the line, through centuries of debate on this subject. To say otherwise shows your not trying to discuss this subject but rather to put in your little jabs your so famous for. Attempt that tactic once more and this discussion will end. If you want honest discussion then explain why Mormons seek Jesus Christ for their salvation, albeit they seek the wrong one. That whole concept goes against what you hold so true. EdB |
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5 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | beva | 70121 | ||
Brother, my name is not John and I am NOT a Mormon. Possibly someone else had this screename at one time? I assure you I was not "taking jabs" merely quoting Holy Scripture. Sorry if that offended you! | ||||||
6 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | EdB | 70128 | ||
Beva See the response I just posted. I explained the mistake. Again I'm sorry I mistook you. I wasn't calling you a Mormon I was asking to you if you are a Calvinist or any calvinist to explain how a Mormons seek Jesus. Yes I know their Jesus is not the true Jesus. It seems to me they do everything Calvinist claims to be impossible for fallen man. EdB |
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