Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | aznsmartyic | 69809 | ||
I begin with a fact, that God loves us. Most Christians believe this whole hearteadly. I'm wondering then, since God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, then why he would create Lucifer and hence, seem to create sin. Now I know what you're going to tell me, Lucifer had the choice whether to or not to sin. This is true. However, one must accept, a fact. The culmination of all the circumstances in ones life is what influences one to make the decisions he or she makes. Now knowing this, God created Lucifer. Created him in the way, that he knew would cause chaos and disorder. On top of this he created Adam and Eve. And doing so, he knew the circumstances in their lives would lead them to sin. He knew that they would succumb to the devil's message. Now again i know your going to say, sure freedom of choice, but He knew that the way He created them, was in such a way that they would sin, though they didn't have to. If God loves us this much why create us to suffer? To be unhappy? Lets know analyze Cain. God knew that by creating all the things from point A[earth or even before that] to point b[up to Adam and Eve] it would spawn a family of sinners. Now he knew that because of the way Cain would be raised and because of the circumstances and environments around him that he would refuse to give the sacrifice God wanted and insist upon his own way. He knew that he would become frustrated and then kill his brother. Since the choices in life we make are based on the large compendium of circumstances which have occured to us, then God almost has seemed to have created both the saved and doomed sinner. Has created knowingly that many will be lost. Has created knowing that the way he did so would spawn the appropriate circumstances[happenings] from the beginning of Adam and Eve to know that would cause many people to permanently lose their lives. Now it seems like this is unfair, like because of circumstance[God knowing what everyone of them are] Many people though, are able to choose God but never will because of the way they have been programmed by the circumstances around them, and indirectly because of all the happenings in time between creation and this persons life. Now i also know that God giving his life wasn't fair. I'm in conflict. I want to love God, but its almost as if he created Sin, and he created pain, and suffering, though indirectly. | ||||||
2 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Reformer Joe | 70091 | ||
Here are a couple of observations I wanted to make. You wrote: "However, one must accept, a fact. The culmination of all the circumstances in ones life is what influences one to make the decisions he or she makes." Our circumstances do exert significant influence on us, but it would be unbiblical to say that we are merely blank slates upon which our life experiences write. Since the fall, we are in bondage to sin until we become Christians. Our sin might express itself in different ways due to our respective circumstances, but we willingly commit the sins we do. We come into this world as an enemy of God, and until we are reconciled through Jesus Christ, that is how our lives are lived. You wrote: "Now he knew that because of the way Cain would be raised and because of the circumstances and environments around him that he would refuse to give the sacrifice God wanted and insist upon his own way." And yet Abel didn't, being raised in the same circumstances... "Since the choices in life we make are based on the large compendium of circumstances which have occured to us, then God almost has seemed to have created both the saved and doomed sinner." God did create the saved and the doomed sinner, but we are more than the product of our circumstances. We are not simply "programmed," as you directly state or imply in your post. We come in this world wanting to sin. And absolute, unmediated justice on God's part is that we all go to hell. Anything else is an exhibition of God's mercy. God did create knowing that the fall would happen, but those who go to hell get what they deserve, and the Christian does not. --Joe! |
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3 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Morant61 | 70115 | ||
Greetings Joe! I was reading some in Norman Geisler's book, "Chosen but Free" the other day. He made an interesting point about Adam and Eve. I can uderstand how someone could argue that a sinner freely chooses to sin, and as such deserve their punishment. But, how about Adam and Eve? They were not created with a sinful or depraved nature, so what was the cause of their choice to disobey God? I'm ust curious as to how you view this question! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Reformer Joe | 70148 | ||
This is a good question, and not an easy one to answer from Scripture, since we get no insight into the thoughts going through the heads of our first parents. One thing does stick out to me when considering the cause of their fall, and he was coiled up in the tree coaching Eve to do what she did. Would they have obeyed God without the prince of lies coming in and convincing them otherwise? I am pretty convinced that they likely would have. And I also think this serves as a reminder to us that our enemies here and now are the flesh (which wasn't a problem for Adam and Eve at the outset), the world system (which was perfect pre-Fall) and Satan, whose minions are constantly prowling about seeking whom they may devour. Therefore, since Adam and Eve were not created with a disposition to sin, nor had a society around them coaxing them into it, I think that Satan gets the credit for being the prime mover in the Fall. And the prize? His head crushed and a lake of fire forever and ever. --Joe! |
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5 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Morant61 | 70149 | ||
Greetings Joe! Thanks for your response my friend! The reason I asked is that Geisler makes a strong point that orignal sin is evidence of free will (at least as I defined in a previous post). Since, Adam and Eve did not have a fallen nature at this point, they had (as you put it) no 'disposition to sin'. So, one is really only left with two possibilities. 1) God 'made' them choose sin. or 2) They freely chose to sin against God. I agree that Satan had a part to play, but he had no ability to force them to do anything. So, his could only be a tempting role, not a determintive role. I think that we would both agree that God didn't make them sin, since that would make God the direct author of sin. The only possibility that I can see which is left is that they freely chose to sin, not in obedience to a fallen nature, but as an act of will. One could even argue that 'sin' was against their nature in that sense that there had never been a human act of sin prior to this. Any way, I was just curious if there were any holes that I was missing! :) Keep me in prayer this week my friend. I have two abscessed teeth and the entire side of my face is swollen and painful. I can't get in to have them removed until Dec. 31. :-( Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Reformer Joe | 70152 | ||
"The only possibility that I can see which is left is that they freely chose to sin, not in obedience to a fallen nature, but as an act of will. One could even argue that 'sin' was against their nature in that sense that there had never been a human act of sin prior to this." Augustine didn't see it as "against their nature." Here is how he explained it (in Latin): posse peccare ("able to sin") -- pre-fall humanity non posse non peccare ("not able not to sin") -- post-fall unregenerate humanity posse non peccare ("able not to sin") -- the Christian on earth non posse peccare ("not able to sin") -- the glorified saint So Adam was created sinless, but fallible. Whatever the case, we can all agree that he wasn't created irresistibly disposed to doing good. --Joe! |
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7 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Morant61 | 70159 | ||
Greetings Joe! One of the more interesting chapters in Geisler's book was the one listing quotes from the Early Church Fathers and their views of free will. Even Augustine initally believed in it, though he did change his position later in life. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Is God somehow responsible? | Rom 1:20 | Reformer Joe | 70168 | ||
"Even Augustine initally believed in it, though he did change his position later in life." Sounds like me! :) --Joe! |
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