Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51418 | ||
Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly, The book of Galatians, ;1,2Cor.;Eph;Col;Phil;Romans;etc. were written to baptized believers or unbaptized believers? You put what Jesus tells us to do to be saved, (to be baptized) in the same category as the Law of Moses! 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a lair, and the truth is not in him". How can John say this about believers, and you say Paul in his writing is excluding baptism, when Jesus is the one who told his disciples to preach and teach men what to do to be saved. Jesus told Ananias to tell Saul to "arise and be baptized and wash away his sins" Acts 22:16. 1 John 5:4-12 mainly vs.6-8 "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood, And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. vs.7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one. vs.8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. vs. If we receive the witness fo men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God, which he hath testified of his Son. From the above passages what do we learn, We need to have faith in what God tells us to do, and do it without questions! Why do you look for a way out of what Jesus said? Do we as men dictate the terms of salvation or does God dictate the terms? | ||||||
2 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 51550 | ||
"The book of Galatians, ;1,2Cor.;Eph;Col;Phil;Romans;etc. were written to baptized believers or unbaptized believers?" They were written to churches, made up mostly of baptized believers (with some baptized unbelievers mixed in, to be sure). There was no concept of an unbaptized believer in the New Testament, just like there should not be a concept of an unbaptized believer today. You wrote: "You put what Jesus tells us to do to be saved, (to be baptized) in the same category as the Law of Moses!" I don't put baptism in the category of what Jesus tells us to do in order to be saved. I know: Mark 16:16. Please cite for me ANY other verse where Jesus links baptism and salvation. As has been clearly pointed out, that section of Mark may not be the divinely-inspired writing of Mark. You believing it was definitely in the autographs is a an article of faith on your part and not an extablished fact. You wrote: "1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a lair, and the truth is not in him". You are absolutely right. My obedience in baptism is evidence that I do indeed know Him, but it is not the means by which I came to know Him. 'Jesus told Ananias to tell Saul to "arise and be baptized and wash away his sins" Acts 22:16.' He certainly did. He also told a crowd of people, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." Do you take this to mean that we should be cannibals? Jesus said of the bread: "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." Do you hold it to be the literal body of Christ? Are we really eating Him? The sacramental elements point to spiritual realities; they do not create them. The water in baptism is a sign of washing away sins, just like the bread and the cup are the sign of Christ's body being offered for His people. The sign of baptism accompanies the reality of regeneration, but it is not the same thing as regeneration. You wrote: "We need to have faith in what God tells us to do, and do it without questions!" Like I told mouse2, that statement makes no sense. We can have faith in God and his character. We can have faith in what Christ accomplished. How does one have faith in a command? When you were a child, and your mother told you to clean your room, did you have faith in that commandment? There is nothing to have faith in! One can have faith in declaratives (the earth is round; God is one; Jesus's death paid the penalty for my sins). One either obeys or disobeys imperatives (honor your father and mother; eat your peas; don't play in traffic; be baptized). One is faith; the other is obedience. One results from the other, but they are not the same thing. --Joe! |
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3 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51807 | ||
"I don't put baptism in the category of what Jesus tells us to do in order to be saved. I know: Mark 16:16. Please cite for me ANY other verse where Jesus links baptism and salvation. As has been clearly pointed out, that section of Mark may not be the divinely-inspired writing of Mark. You believing it was definitely in the autographs is a an article of faith on your part and not an extablished fact". This is my whole point to you. You want someone to produce another, verse in the bible, but you know you would have to add to God's word to do it. But yet you wish to take Mark 16:16 out of all bibles and trying to say it's not inspired. I believe you and your friends want to take this verse out because it doesn't support your view of salvation. As I told Hank, Mark 16:16 is here to stay. You mentioned John 6:53, the people's reply to it, was, "this is a hard saying who can hear it" Mark 16:16 is viewed the same way today, by those who want to throw it out, instead of obeying what it says! "The water in baptism is a sign of washing away sins, just like the bread and the cup are the sign of Christ's body being offered for His people. The sign of baptism accompanies the reality of regeneration, but it is not the same thing as regeneration" Your above statement says baptism is a sign, baptism takes faith just like all spoken words from God's book, you have to believe in the power of what God said it for. Your last statement to mouse2, "that statement makes no sense" it made sense to Abraham! |
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4 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | 2ndSamuel22 | 51814 | ||
Greetings Grace and Truth!! Let me ask you these questions: Q: What did Jesus cry out before He said,"Father into Thy hand I commend my spirit"(Luke 23:46, KJV)? A: "It is FINISHED"(John 19:30, KJV) "It is finished" comes from the Greek "teleo" From Strong's-- 5055 teleo [tel-eh'-o] 1) to bring to a close, to finish, to end 1a) passed, finished 2) to perform, execute, complete, fulfil, (so that the thing done corresponds to what has been said, the order, command etc.) 2a) with special reference to the subject matter, to carry out the contents of a command 2b) with reference also to the form, to do just as commanded, and generally involving the notion of time, TO PERFORM THE LAST ACT WHICH COMPLETES A PROCESS, TO ACCOMPLISH, FULFILL 3) to pay 3a) of tribute [emhases mine] ---- "It is finished" John 19:30 Q: What was completed, fulfilled, finished? A: Our salvation Q: What has God ever started that WE can complete? A: Nothing!! Q: Can aything we do ever make us righteous in God's eyes? A: NO Q: Does even the keeping of God's commands make us righteous in His eyes? A: NO Q: If someone repents, and accepts Jesus as his Saviour on their deathbed, without the chance to be baptized, are they saved? A: Yes(Matt 20:16 "So the last shall be first, and the first last." (NASB)) Q: Does God make different rules for salvation for different people? A: No. Q: Should we be baptized as the outward sign of our inward faith? A: Yes My friend, I do not mean to sound as if I think baptism is unimportant. It is a commandment from God, and we should seek to fulfill His commandments. But it is not the keeping of His commandments that gets us into heaven(Galatians 3:3--...Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?). For if we believe that keeping ONE of His commandments brings us salvation, then we must believe in(and strive for) keeping them all. Our salvation comes only by the shed blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. May the Grace of Our Lord be with you!! 2nds Samuel 22 |
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5 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51823 | ||
"Q: If someone repents, and accepts Jesus as his Saviour on their deathbed, without the chance to be baptized, are they saved? A: Yes(Matt 20:16 "So the last shall be first, and the first last." (NASB)) You used (Matt 20:16) but you neglected verse 1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to (hire LABOURERS) INTO HIS VINEYARD. To do what? Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, and he that believeth not shall be condenmed. Yes Jesus completed his work on earth, now it's our turn. Remember the new covenant started when Jesus went back to heaven, after sending the 11 to Jerusalem, to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit. |
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6 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | 2ndSamuel22 | 51860 | ||
Greetings Grace and Truth!! Well, I see that neither one of us is going to persuade the other to change their position. You say baptism saves, I say baptism is the result of saving faith. So, like Tim Moran, I will also end my side of this thread. Let me just say in closing, though, that we will see each other in the Kingdom of Heaven. Just so you know, yes, I have been baptized..:) May the grace of our Lord be with you!! 2nd Samuel 22 |
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